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[RicePlateReddy]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

[prfsr]

Disagree. I do not think Ranji matches against Punjab necessarily indicate anything, given that VVS was never a RD in defence. Many here predicted SG was finished based on his inability to score huge against small teams.

-P

[RicePlateReddy]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

[prfsr]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

Sure

Money is not fun. Let's wager our .sigs -- the loser will change their .sig admitting that he was wrong about VVS.

-P

[RicePlateReddy]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

Sure

Money is not fun. Let's wager our .sigs -- the loser will change their .sig admitting that he was wrong about VVS.

-P

How about changing IDs? You become Extra Cover if you lose and I will become Long Leg if I do. 

[kingcool1432]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

Sure

Money is not fun. Let's wager our .sigs -- the loser will change their .sig admitting that he was wrong about VVS.

-P

How about changing IDs? You become Extra Cover if you lose and I will become Long Leg if I do. 

 

[inoc]

on the other hand VVS had an excellent run in the county after the indian test series.

Matches/Inn/NO/Runs/HS/Avg/SR/100/50

County Championship Division One
5    8    1    380    103    54.28     66.78    2    2

Pro 40

3    3   1   161   85*   80.50  92.52   0    2

[ramshorns]

KOP:I am a little surprised you used this latest Ranji game as a barometer to back your call of Laxman's end.  If you see in the 2nd innings he batted at No. 8 in a game he knew would be a draw, only to give exposure to the newbie's when he would be gone for tests in the remaning Ranji games.  That make's sense what with losing close to 10 players to ICL.

If you see Inoc's post above he was in pretty decent form in the county games and also the test series prior to that in England.

So you are pretty much banking your bet based on intuition and gut than logic IMO.  That way I can say Sachin (If the same standards for selection that apply to Laxman or even Ganguly apply to him) will be finished as a Test player after the Australian series or for that matter Dravid and even Ganguly.

[RicePlateReddy]

rams,

The latest Ranji game (just one game) gave me a convenient exclamation point to underline something I have felt otherwise and even mentioned on the DG prior to this last post. I have been frustrated with Laxman and do feel that in spite of his being short changed in the order (he belongs at number 3, period!), he should have done far better than he has done. His talents and ability are never in doubt, when he is in flow But I made this post based on a hunch that his hourglass has run out -- the increasing years, against a resurgent fresh-legged Aussie attack save McGill, means the end. I like taking a strong stance these days 

[gouravk]

why ? when and how do you think laxman has let the team down more than anyone else ? in fact hasnt he scored more heroic efforts than most of the other team members ? why in an overall assessment has he frustrated you ?

[RicePlateReddy]

I am not making relative comparisons, and I fully know that his second innings against SA was a major reason we won the first test. These are VVS' scores in the last 3 test series:

WI 29 & 31, 0, 100 & 63, 18 & 16
SA 28 & 73, 50* & 15, 13 & 1
ENG 15 & 39, 54, 51, 46*

AVG: 40.125

I don't like it (he hasn't been playing ODIs so no exhaustion/jaded excuse for him). Seeing Australia subjugate SL, I don't think he will do better than the low 30s.

Now if you want to pool in RD and SRT that is your call, not mine. I may not necessarily disagree but I am not wagering.

[dhruvdeepak]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

Sure

Money is not fun. Let's wager our .sigs -- the loser will change their .sig admitting that he was wrong about VVS.

-P

How about changing IDs? You become Extra Cover if you lose and I will become Long Leg if I do. 

challenge extended...
(btw kop didnt you say something about eating your hat?)

[Libran]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

Sure

Money is not fun. Let's wager our .sigs -- the loser will change their .sig admitting that he was wrong about VVS.

-P

How about changing IDs? You become Extra Cover if you lose and I will become Long Leg if I do. 

net..net the DG does not lose...all it does is move from one position to another 

[LosingNow]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

This is a "chicken-bet".. if you want to really bet his demise as a player, bet it after Pak  (the easier series) why wait till Aus series.. by then many could be gone!!

[RicePlateReddy]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

Sure

Money is not fun. Let's wager our .sigs -- the loser will change their .sig admitting that he was wrong about VVS.

-P

How about changing IDs? You become Extra Cover if you lose and I will become Long Leg if I do. 

challenge extended...
(btw kop didnt you say something about eating your hat?)

Okay, whether prfsr accepts or not, I will live up to my end of the bargain and change my ID if VVS does not have a poor (less than 31 average) series against Australia.

"eating hat" - in what context DD? I am sure some of my predictions backfired, most notably that SRT will retire from ODIs due to injuries/fitness taking a toll on him. At least his cramps are reminding me that I was not totally lost in space.

[RicePlateReddy]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

This is a "chicken-bet".. if you want to really bet his demise as a player, bet it after Pak  (the easier series) why wait till Aus series.. by then many could be gone!!

Even though he flopped against a fellow named "Gony", the recall of Sami does not allow me to commit 

Many could be gone(y) by the end of the Aussie series, eh? Why don't you cover other bases? After LosingNow and WinningNow, you can become the Zen master, Now.

[LosingNow]

Many could be gone(y) by the end of the Aussie series, eh?

I said that because Aus tour will be physically and mentally tough.. and the results (both individual and team) may force selectors to make some changes ..and it is also a good "milestone" of sorts when it comes to test series (I know there is a home series against SA before we end the season..but still).

[dhruvdeepak]

Care to wager? The Pakistani bowling could be sketchy so he may live another series. But I will wager that the Aus series is the last series that VVS Laxman makes even the larger test squad. Rs 250 or Euros 30 or Dollars 50 on that.

Sure

Money is not fun. Let's wager our .sigs -- the loser will change their .sig admitting that he was wrong about VVS.

-P

How about changing IDs? You become Extra Cover if you lose and I will become Long Leg if I do. 

challenge extended...
(btw kop didnt you say something about eating your hat?)

Okay, whether prfsr accepts or not, I will live up to my end of the bargain and change my ID if VVS does not have a poor (less than 31 average) series against Australia.

"eating hat" - in what context DD? I am sure some of my predictions backfired, most notably that SRT will retire from ODIs due to injuries/fitness taking a toll on him. At least his cramps are reminding me that I was not totally lost in space.

yes. you even posted the picture of the hat you were going to eat  would you like some daal with that 

[justforkix]

I am looking forward to watch those peaches that VVS and SRT are going to get in the next couple of series from Akhtar/Gul/Lee/Johnson 

[keep-it-cool]

Not related to this .. but there was an exchange between Siva and Aamir Sohail during yesterday's match.

Aamir - Siva, what kind of pitches do you expect the tests to be played on?

Siva - With Kumble being a spinner, I am sure he'll expect spinner friendly wickets

Aamir - Do you think it is good practice for the Aus tour to play on low spinning wickets?

Siva - you know, you have to evaluate the situation and adapt from time to time

[dhruvdeepak]

gosh that idiot siva and aamer were talking yesterday during that same discussion and apparently siva believes pakistan's pace attack has better firepower so india should prepare slow turning tracks.

[keep-it-cool]

gosh that idiot siva and aamer were talking yesterday during that same discussion and apparently siva believes pakistan's pace attack has better firepower so india should prepare slow turning tracks.

and, he even said .. given the form harbhajan singh is in, there is no way he can be left out .. he has been "brilliant" or "excellent" or "stupendous" or something like that ... that was another reason he gave for spinning tracks.

[broadbat]

Why is he talking as though Pakistan can't play spin?

[justforkix]

Pitch assisting seamers is the best for us - IMO, our pacers are way better than them. Their batters are useless against quality swing bowling. Our batters are way better than them.

The above can't be said about spinners.

[ganavk]

Why is he talking as though Pakistan can't play spin?

because Pakistan can't ! They have a very poor records against most ( make it all the good ) of the spinners. Even when Indians were good against Warne/McGill, Pakistanis were no better

[ru4664]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago.  He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles, I like to live in the real world where players make good 100s regularly than one 281 over an entire career.

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

[gouravk]

VVS may not be the VVS of old. But he is still class. He will play and he will give joy.

[openforum]

I hope VVS plays well atleast till the aus series. Yuvraj might be good in Aus too.. it'll be interesting to see which one will find a place in the playing 11.

[RicePlateReddy]

"eating hat" - in what context DD? I am sure some of my predictions backfired, most notably that SRT will retire from ODIs due to injuries/fitness taking a toll on him. At least his cramps are reminding me that I was not totally lost in space.

yes. you even posted the picture of the hat you were going to eat  would you like some daal with that 

Hey hey hey - I clearly remember that the "eating hat" picture was posted in my thread "Tendulkar Watch". This was when Tendulkar was being soundly castigated after the WC. I posted the thread after the Bangladesh series saying he will make his critics eat their hat. I believe I was right. I have never counted SRT out ever. I only goofed saying his injuries and wearing body will get the better of him and cause him to retire from ODIs. I came close because there were strong murmurs he would do so but then he decided not to.

[justforkix]

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago.  He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles, I like to live in the real world where players make good 100s regularly than one 281 over an entire career.

HEHE. Letz understand this logic.
(1) VVS has sucked vs. Pak in the past, so he will suck again (past indicative of future)
(2) VVS has done well vs. Aus in the past, but that is the past and no indication of future.

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

In other words, RD and SRT open the innings with the score reading 0/2

[LosingNow]

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago.  He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles, I like to live in the real world where players make good 100s regularly than one 281 over an entire career.

HEHE. Letz understand this logic.
(1) VVS has sucked vs. Pak in the past, so he will suck again (past indicative of future)
(2) VVS has done well vs. Aus in the past, but that is the past and no indication of future.

ROFLMAO..

looks like Kic and JFK are in form today

[poondu]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago.  He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles, I like to live in the real world where players make good 100s regularly than one 281 over an entire career.

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

RU can't handle the opening bowlers in ODIs, U expect him to do it in tests.

It will be catching practice for the slip cordon 

[kingcool1432]

KOP:I am a little surprised you used this latest Ranji game as a barometer to back your call of Laxman's end.  If you see in the 2nd innings he batted at No. 8 in a game he knew would be a draw, only to give exposure to the newbie's when he would be gone for tests in the remaning Ranji games.  That make's sense what with losing close to 10 players to ICL.

Actually, demoting himself down the order was because he was injured (stiff back or something).

[ramshorns]

KOP:I am a little surprised you used this latest Ranji game as a barometer to back your call of Laxman's end.  If you see in the 2nd innings he batted at No. 8 in a game he knew would be a draw, only to give exposure to the newbie's when he would be gone for tests in the remaning Ranji games.  That make's sense what with losing close to 10 players to ICL.

Actually, demoting himself down the order was because he was injured (stiff back or something).

I just read that in Cricinfo where they mentioned that in passing but that to me is hard to believe that someone would recover to field when Punjab batted and also jog on the same day as this link suggests.

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/india/content/image/320938.html

[broadbat]

It does not seem to be anywhere near the end from what we have seen so far.

[justforkix]

VVS has scored runs
SG is a valuable 3rd pacer at home in a 2+2 attack
So, Yuvi can only replace RD or SRT 

[kingcool1432]

VVS has scored runs
SG is a valuable 3rd pacer at home in a 2+2 attack
So, Yuvi can only replace RD or SRT 

No no no 

It just means Ganguly and Laxman are being selfish by not opening the batting to give Yuvi a chance.

[keep-it-cool]

Some of the boundaries were sublime. Especially the two straight ones off Tanvir at the beginning of his innings.

[feverpitch]

I won't go into the VVS debate. Everyone knows where my sympathies lie.

I just felt one thing watching this test intermittently: this was being played between two mediocre sides trying to outdo each other in stupidity and ways of committing seppuku.

[LosingNow]

VVS. Again.

Mukul Kesavan

http://blogs.cricinfo.com/meninwhite/archives/2007/11/vvs_again.php

   
VVS Laxman steered India to within a boundary of Pakistan's total © AFP

I took in a session of the second day of the Delhi Test from a strange angle: very high up in the West Stand and perpendicular to the wicket. The novelty of watching the action side-on (fast bowling seems faster because you can't see the ball once someone like Akhtar lets it go and it's startling to see how far forward batsmen stretch in defence) soon wore off because it was hard to tell why someone was beaten or what the ball was doing.

Wasim Jaffer plays the flick to the square leg boundary as well as any man alive. He brought one off against Akhtar in the first over of the Indian innings and for a fleeting moment he looked like Greg Chappell in his prime, all upright elegance. He hit three more like that, two off Sohail Tanvir and another one off Akhtar and they all went for four. Jaffer is an enigma: it's hard to reconcile the man who plays the grand on-drive and that lordly flick, with the anonymous player who will wait inertly upon events, over after over, whose bat sounds like cracked sheeshum instead of seasoned willow each time he pushes or drives on the off-side. I like him very much: I just wish he'd hurry up and make another hundred so that we can begin to take his place for granted at the top of the order.

Yuvraj strolled into the arena occasionally in his capacity as twelfth man or something. Each time that happened lots of people rushed to the front of the stand and peered down and screamed "Yuvi!" The man in front of me, who stood and obscured the action whenever a shot was played (he'd leap to his feet, adjust himself and press his cell phone to his ear in practiced sequence) complained to his seated friend about Yuvraj's exclusion. Not playing him in Delhi—saalon nein Dilli mein nahin khilaya—seemed to aggravate the injustice done him. I began to feel like an Arsenal fan marooned among Man U maniacs. Yahoos for Yuvraj to the left of me, Lumpen against Laxman behind me. Unwilling to watch VVS make his magic among these brutes, I left the stadium when Tendulkar ran himself out and found myself a sympathetic television set.

The rest, I hope, will be history. Laxman came in when the score was 88 for 4 and inspite of losing Dravid on 93 and Dhoni at 208, he steered India to within a boundary of the Pakistan total by close of play. He was, as he often is in Test matches, the best batsman on show. It is absurd that he bats at six. Kumble has done nearly everything right in his debut as captain. Before the match began he was forthright in his endorsement of Laxman as an automatic selection for the Test team. Now that VVS has vindicated his judgment, the skipper should promote him to five in the batting order, ahead of Ganguly. Number three would be better , but down here in the VVS dugout, we aren't in a hurry. Test cricket's our game: we're used to taking things one day at a time