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[OldPal]

Nah.. dont keep the losing thoughts for long .. Lets focus on the next one:

Green park Kanpur:
http://stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=ground;groundid=419;class=odiground;filter=basic;team1=0;team2=0;notteam=0;homeaway=0;month=0;decade=0;season=0;startdefault=1986-12-24;start=1986-12-24;enddefault=2005-04-15;end=2005-04-15;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;scheduleddays=0;result=0;followon=0;recent=5;viewtype=list;innings=0;runslow=;runshigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=;ballslow=;ballshigh=;bpo=0;overslow=;overshigh=;event=0;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype


Ponder on
1.
The ground is slightly small with other intl std grounds. Thus 4's and 6's may be found in abundance.
Afridi's 45 ball hundred (with 9 sixes) came here in last match against India.SRT also had 7 sixes in his knock against Aus in the same ground. Thus lofted shots are encouraged in and after pwerplays by powerful hitter.

             R M B 4s 6s SR
Shahid Afridi b Harbhajan Singh 102 76 46 10 9 221.73
SR Tendulkar c sub (DR Martyn) b Warne 100 132 89 5 7 112.35

2. Though a batting friendly ground but spinner have done OK here. Thus can play HS and MK both .

3. Looks Like Dhoni doesn't want the team to change unless somebody does not perform. GG will play, SG has need to fail one more time before the replacement thought. RS ,PK ,SS have not been given chances.

4.VS coming at No4. Not sure if he is needed at that batting order.
5. GG has done well at no3 , thus can stay there.
6. ZK has played a lot of cricket and, I am not sure if he still practices hard , may want to try something new.
7. Dhoni Dhamaka: Went with 7 bat + IKP- DOnt know if he plans similar dhamaka.. but i would have 5 bowlers in team. As one of the bowlers does come up with a batsman performnce if needed.

Considering above- Kanpur ke Khiladi:
SRT,SG,MSD,GG,YS,RU,IKP,MK,HS,SS,RPS

A. I think SG was given the message in this match to have a bit higer SR than usual, The message should be: after one scores 20 runs or so, try taking control of the game from batting side instead let the bowling team dominate.(start increasing SR than)
B. MSD seems to take his time to get in before trying some shots, thus given no3 slot (PP fiasco): I am still debating utility of RU at this position,  but dont want too many new('s) in this match. GG can continue if somebody minds.
C.The fast bowlers seem ineffective , IKP and ZK have started to take their places for granted i feel, one rest or introduction of PK at his home state?

[gouravk]

dont pick karthik again - and lose again - 

[Cover Point]

RU has been wasted in the last two games .... today due to that IDIOT UMPIRE.

I think he should open. Drop sehwag and bring in RS.

Rest leave as is

[gouravk]

its not the batting that is at fault. it is the BOWLING. there is one simple reason why we lost today. we dropped karthik. bring him back in and things will sort themselves out.

[indcric]

its not the batting that is at fault. it is the BOWLING. there is one simple reason why we lost today. we dropped karthik. bring him back in and things will sort themselves out.

Hmm.. looks like you are not following the Indian team strategy since long time. If you have a problem with the left hand, apply the medicine & do massage to the right hand. If you don't have bowlers who can take wickets or who can control run flow, have 7 batsmen (and make a regular batsman a wicket keeper or try to make a bowler an all-rounder) or at least try different combinations of batsmen. When our fielding is bad, have a specialist fielder in the team and since he can't bat well, the other batsmen who can't field would score runs for him. Just before the world cup, our the then captain said "since we give away 30 runs in the fielding, our batsmen will try to score those many runs more".

So, if bowling is bad, fix the batting. If fielding is bad, fix the batting. If batting itself is bad, then say that the Indian public is very demanding and try to fix them.

[LosingNow]

I agree..dropping MK ahead of HS was silly...however, in some sense, that was not the reason we lost.. because HS got us to 321 ..
We lost due to a brilliant spell by Pakis led by Akhtar in the late 30s/early 40 overs.. and a collectively complacent by our team and downright listless performance by ZK ( he is tired.. I said this during the Aus ODIs).. this guy needs genuine "rest"..

[Blwe_torch]

I think...the other Paki bowler..Sohail Tanvir bowled very well with his reverse swings proving very effective. Yes, Uthappa was unfortunate.
Also, Shoaib bowled well with his shortened run-up.

[WicketView]

Sure, MK has been bowling better than HS in the recent past. So, I wonder why they went with this choice.

[broadbat]

Look at the last game HS had better figures than MK. We should have defended 321 no matter what. From 190 odd for 3 after 30 overs the middle order should have easily got us to around 340-50. That was very poor batting. ZK looks listless, not enough wickets either in the beginning or at the death and giving away too many runs.

[Cover Point]

Sure, MK has been bowling better than HS in the recent past. So, I wonder why they went with this choice.

Because they try to select a local person always. Mohali is Bhajji's home ground.

[poondu]

Look at the last game HS had better figures than MK. We should have defended 321 no matter what. From 190 odd for 3 after 30 overs the middle order should have easily got us to around 340-50. That was very poor batting. ZK looks listless, not enough wickets either in the beginning or at the death and giving away too many runs.

If you had actually watched the game, MK bowled better than HS. A couple of chances were put down of his bowling as well.

[LosingNow]

Look at the last game HS had better figures than MK. We should have defended 321 no matter what. From 190 odd for 3 after 30 overs the middle order should have easily got us to around 340-50. That was very poor batting. ZK looks listless, not enough wickets either in the beginning or at the death and giving away too many runs.

If you had actually watched the game, MK bowled better than HS. A couple of chances were put down of his bowling as well.

Good point poondu.

[gouravk]

No but why consider dropping either ? WHAT WAS THE BLEEDING NEED FOR THE EXTRA BATSMAN

[OldPal]

No but why consider dropping either ? WHAT WAS THE BLEEDING NEED FOR THE EXTRA BATSMAN

Mohali in the past never was a spinners track, Spinners have always been at  receiving end at Mohali, In case of miracle  VS,SRT and YS could have been used . While i dont agree  with playing another BAT.I personally before the match did not wanted to have two full time spinner in Mohali I wanted to play additional seam. SG though did well.
Bhajji's figure is 6.5 RPO,SRT -11 RPO,Malik 10.33 RPO,Afridi 6.5 RPO . Pak did not play their additional spinner as well.
Thus IMO while we can debate who among the two HS or MK would have played, but having only one spinner seemed logical.

[gouravk]

I dont think we can go on history of tracks esp in ODIs. It is the current form and current combination that has worked that matters. Karthik was brough in midway during the Aussie series because the Aussie left arm spinners were doing a fabulous job and Dhoni thought Karthik could do a similar job. Which he did. He did spectacularly.

[justforkix]

No but why consider dropping either ? WHAT WAS THE BLEEDING NEED FOR THE EXTRA BATSMAN

"Green Top" which was supposed to be a bowler's paradise as per reports and curator !!

[OldPal]

I dont think we can go on history of tracks esp in ODIs. It is the current form and current combination that has worked that matters. Karthik was brough in midway during the Aussie series because the Aussie left arm spinners were doing a fabulous job and Dhoni thought Karthik could do a similar job. Which he did. He did spectacularly.

Similarly here Dhoni did not think Karthik will do a fabulos job.
In form amond the I would have played MK. and SS to fill additional bowler.

[gouravk]

jfk
The next time we see a green top will we go in with 9 batsmen and 2 bowlers ? We already had 7 batsmen dammit, why go for the 8th one ?

pankaj
If it is Dhonis decision, Dhoni erred badly. And paid the price.

[justforkix]

I just gave the most likely reason. Not that I agree with it. But I would have also played only 1 spinner. But it would have been MK instead of HS. And of course SS for ZK. The track suited seamers more than spinners. I don't think playing 2 spinners there made sense. That our "lead" seamer sucked as usual is an orthogonal issue.

[OldPal]

I just gave the most likely reason. Not that I agree with it. But I would have also played only 1 spinner. But it would have been MK instead of HS. And of course SS for ZK. The track suited seamers more than spinners. I don't think playing 2 spinners there made sense. That our "lead" seamer sucked as usual is an orthogonal issue.

Man .. you can read minds... I was thinking exactly the same ..

[gouravk]

It is a humongously stupid move IMO. The key to bringing back Irfan was to get the balance of the side right. Now we get that balance right and yet we go and destroy it by playing the extra batsman. I maintain that I would have played with 2 spinners. It is a different thing if we had only 2 pace bowlers. Then it makes sense to go with one spinner and bring in the extra pacer (I repeat extra PACER, not BATSMAN) on a supposedly non-spinner-friendly track. But we had 3 pacers. So that issue goes out of the window.

But jfk your post seems to imply that you would have gone in with 4 bowlers including Irfan. So you support the bringing in Sehwag theory ?

[OldPal]

no no .. no sehwag theory ..
I thought JFK was playing 5 bowlers .. if he is not .. than we are in different team .
As my team must had 5 bowlers here . 1 full time spinner (MK) + 4 Seamers

[gouravk]

hmmm .. again we disagree. ... i believe in playing to our strengths. if our strength is 2 spinners so be it. we played in england with 2 spinners, so whats the big deal abt mohali ? we played and won in headingley in a test match with 2 spinners and 2 seamers so whats the big deal ? here, we already had 3 pacers, so there was no need for a 4th pacer IMO.

[OldPal]

hmmm .. again we disagree. ... i believe in playing to our strengths. if our strength is 2 spinners so be it. we played in england with 2 spinners, so whats the big deal abt mohali ? we played and won in headingley in a test match with 2 spinners and 2 seamers so whats the big deal ? here, we already had 3 pacers, so there was no need for a 4th pacer IMO.

Agree sir with the point of playing to strengths. May be, both may have performed better . but as you said 2+3 , Mine were 1+4 .. Let us watch Om Shanti Om now.

[broadbat]

Look at the last game HS had better figures than MK. We should have defended 321 no matter what. From 190 odd for 3 after 30 overs the middle order should have easily got us to around 340-50. That was very poor batting. ZK looks listless, not enough wickets either in the beginning or at the death and giving away too many runs.

If you had actually watched the game, MK bowled better than HS. A couple of chances were put down of his bowling as well.

Well HS too could have got Younis. But the point is I dont think a spinner would have done the job for us at Mohali. It had to be the quicks.

[justforkix]

no no .. no sehwag theory ..
I thought JFK was playing 5 bowlers .. if he is not .. than we are in different team .
As my team must had 5 bowlers here . 1 full time spinner (MK) + 4 Seamers

But jfk your post seems to imply that you would have gone in with 4 bowlers including Irfan. So you support the bringing in Sehwag theory ?

My bad. I meant 5 bowlers = 4 pacers + 1 spinner - not 3+2 on that track considering both pitch and dew factor.

[indcric]

Till now, most of the previews suggest that Karthik will almost be back in team, replacing Sehwag. But no word about ZK and replacing him with SS. If ZK is still persisted in 4th ODI, it will be plain stupid on part of the bowling coach & the captain.

[ramshorns]

Till now, most of the previews suggest that Karthik will almost be back in team, replacing Sehwag. But no word about ZK and replacing him with SS. If ZK is still persisted in 4th ODI, it will be plain stupid on part of the bowling coach & the captain.

I would like to see a lineup in the lines you suggested.  Karthik in place of either Ganguly or Sehwag and SS in place of ZK.

[justforkix]

Till now, most of the previews suggest that Karthik will almost be back in team, replacing Sehwag. But no word about ZK and replacing him with SS. If ZK is still persisted in 4th ODI, it will be plain stupid on part of the bowling coach & the captain.

I would like to see a lineup in the lines you suggested.  Karthik in place of either Ganguly or Sehwag and SS in place of ZK.

well, zaheer still in. Kartik in place of Sehwag it is.

[indcric]

Till now, most of the previews suggest that Karthik will almost be back in team, replacing Sehwag. But no word about ZK and replacing him with SS. If ZK is still persisted in 4th ODI, it will be plain stupid on part of the bowling coach & the captain.

I would like to see a lineup in the lines you suggested.  Karthik in place of either Ganguly or Sehwag and SS in place of ZK.

well, zaheer still in. Kartik in place of Sehwag it is.

hmm.. Let us see for the 4th ODI. If it still doesn't change, please do me a favour , since you are in Bangalore.  3rd Test is in Bangalore.

[indcric]

Dhoni: "I would have also chosen to bowl but its fine. The ball will do something early but it should become dry and break up later to bring in spin. So I don't think toss is so crucial. Our death bowling, though we have bowled well in the Twenty20 games, has not been good of late."

People know that you identified this death bowling problem a month back. What are the measures you are talking? The problem is not simple to resolve and might take years. But what are the steps you have been taking? We are only hearing about the problem.

[kingcool1432]

WTF are the commentators going on abt how much they weigh?

[WicketView]

It is hard to find something to talk about all the time.

[dhruvdeepak]

where the hell is everyone? COME TO CHAT!!

[indcric]

Amazing stuff Sohail Tanvir. I thought he is going the way of Shoaib Akthar (of too much talk before the series, and getting banged in the real game) when he said "I have prepared on how to bowl on Indian wickets and against Indian batsmen". He lived up to his talk at least for this ODI & last ODI. Great job, man, specially when the other bowlers have gone for so many runs.

By the way, good positive batting from Ganguly. Bad luck to get out early.

[kingcool1432]

Gambhir reallly needs to get going now. He's putting me to sleep.

[gouravk]

another memorable quarter century by the legend !!!

[dhruvdeepak]

yayy dhoni is my trump

[indcric]

yayy dhoni is my trump

but, can't you wait till the end of our innings to make this statement? Unnecessarily jinxed.

[gouravk]

i think gambhirs 25 was the best and most crucial inns of the day.