Print

Please post once and this message will disappear! Introduce yourself, say hello, jump into a discussion...

[pieterSAN]

Just tuned into Neo Sports. My first question - Does anyone know who Srinath's tailor is? He deserves to be shot.

[keep-it-cool]

Wow ... first ball wicket ... A Rahane bowed P Kumar for zero. The cream of Indian cricket pitted against each other.

[dhruvdeepak]

blue vs red. ajinkya rahane leaves looking red-faced.
some asnodkar is in, has a 58.75 list A average...
both have a few decent players. what is most important to me in this first match is to see a good standard of fielding. i know thats asking for a lot, but let's see

[dhruvdeepak]

frankly i want the India Green (not playing today) to win.

[dhruvdeepak]

the india Blue uniform is sexy. i think the India team should wear this color

[keep-it-cool]

Veeru has been tainted by the platformers .... 9 (18) !!!!!

[keep-it-cool]

And the train runs over the platform .. Sehwag gone!!

Make that KKD too ...!!!

Who is this P Kumar? Didnt he do very well with the India A squad too?

[manee]

He was top run scorer for India A in the Tri Series and opened the bowling with success each time.

[teamindia]

And the train runs over the platform .. Sehwag gone!!

Make that KKD too ...!!!

Who is this P Kumar? Didnt he do very well with the India A squad too?

Praveen Kumar

India

Player profile

Full name Praveenkumar Sakat Singh
Born October 2, 1986, Meerut, Uttar Pradesh
Current age 21 years 23 days
Major teams Air India, India Red, Uttar Pradesh
Playing role Bowler
Batting style Right-hand bat
Bowling style Right-arm medium

Batting and fielding averages    Mat    Inns    NO    Runs    HS    Ave    BF    SR    100    50    4s    6s    Ct    St
First-class    19    32    0    732    78    22.87    999    73.27    0    4    78    24    4    0
List A    33    32    1    801    64    25.83    758    105.67    0    4          3    0
Twenty20    4    4    1    107    76*    35.66    76    140.78    0    1    13    2    0    0

Bowling averages    Mat    Inns    Balls    Runs    Wkts    BBI    BBM    Ave    Econ    SR    4w    5w    10
First-class    19    35    4272    2133    90    6/83    10/160    23.70    2.99    47.4    7    6    1
List A    33       1656    1209    54    5/32    5/32    22.38    4.38    30.6    0    1    0
Twenty20    4    4    92    69    5    2/5    2/5    13.80    4.50    18.4    0    0    0

Career statistics First-class debut    Uttar Pradesh v Haryana at Kanpur, Nov 23-26, 2005 scorecard
Last First-class    Uttar Pradesh v Andhra at Kanpur, Jan 10-12, 2007 scorecard
List A debut    2004/05
Last List A    India A v South Africa A at Rajkot, Sep 30, 2007 scorecard
Twenty20 debut    Railways v Uttar Pradesh at Jaipur, Apr 3, 2007 scorecard
Last Twenty20    Uttar Pradesh v Vidarbha at Jaipur, Apr 6, 2007 scorecard

 Profile

Praveen Kumar honed his reputation as a man of many parts: A fast bowler with the ability to toil away on unresponsive Indian wickets who can double up as a carefree hitter down the order and as a surprise opener. Beginning his career in the Uttar Pradesh Under-19 team alongside RP Singh, Piyush Chawla, and Suresh Raina, he soon graduated to first-class cricket and shone on his Ranji Trophy debut, picking up nine wickets against Haryana. Kumar was key to UP winning the title in his first Ranji season, taking 41 wickets and scoring 368 runs. His consistency - 90 wickets in two first-class seasons - earned him a call-up to the India A squad touring Kenya in 2007.

[dhruvdeepak]

he is an all-rounder. his bowling is decent for a 5th bowler, robin singh-esque, but he swings it quite a bit. unfortunately his batting is not up to scratch, though he opens for UP

[keep-it-cool]

Why are all our leading wickettakers in domestic cricket Robinsinghesque??

[fineleg]

Why are all our leading wickettakers in domestic cricket Robinsinghesque??

Yes - so called military medium pacers(123, 125 occasionally 129-130). But its good enough for domestic batsman to get out.

[dhruvdeepak]

Why are all our leading wickettakers in domestic cricket Robinsinghesque??

rather unfortunate isnt it. he is another joginder sharma - no way he could open the bowling for India OR come in first change. has to have a 2nd suit. im afraid Bose is only slightly better because he has the height. in that respect i can see the sense in backing guys like Ishant and VRV

btw what happened to venugopal rao...

[broadbat]

It might help if he could become another Madan Lal

[keep-it-cool]

Why are all our leading wickettakers in domestic cricket Robinsinghesque??

rather unfortunate isnt it. he is another joginder sharma - no way he could open the bowling for India OR come in first change. has to have a 2nd suit. im afraid Bose is only slightly better because he has the height. in that respect i can see the sense in backing guys like Ishant and VRV

btw what happened to venugopal rao...

No idea.

How does Raina look at the crease?

Anyway, I dont even know whether it really makes a difference ... would have been productive to see how he shapes up against a Zaheer Khan or RPS

[manee]

Why are all our leading wickettakers in domestic cricket Robinsinghesque??

Yes - so called military medium pacers(123, 125 occasionally 129-130). But its good enough for domestic batsman to get out.

Why is it not good enough for international cricket? People like Pollock and Vaas have been successful recently at that pace.

[Libran]

KKD's scores in ODI's since Ireland (including 20/20 and the current Challenger series)

50 ovs       19, 32* , 14, 44* , 1, 0, 4 , 2* , 0

20/20        11, 17, 0

Challengers 0

Do we still need to give him the long rope or just get in Rohit Sharma / Badrinath !!!!!!!!!!!

[manee]

KKD's scores in ODI's since Ireland (including 20/20 and the current Challenger series)

50 ovs       19, 32* , 14, 44* , 1, 0, 4 , 2* , 0

20/20        11, 17, 0

Challengers 0

Do we still need to give him the long rope or just get in Rohit Sharma / Badrinath !!!!!!!!!!!

Or Raina?

It is a shame about Sehwag, he is in a bad patch but I still rate him highly. Especially in tests.

What sort of pace is Ishant Sharma and Trivedi?

[keep-it-cool]

Why are all our leading wickettakers in domestic cricket Robinsinghesque??

Yes - so called military medium pacers(123, 125 occasionally 129-130). But its good enough for domestic batsman to get out.

Why is it not good enough for international cricket? People like Pollock and Vaas have been successful recently at that pace.

Pollock and Vaas are bowling at this pace now .. after spending over a decade in international cricket .... so, experience in some way has made up for the lack of pace. Despite that Pollock is no longer a regular in the SA test squad .. Vaas also does not appear as penetrative any longer.

For a newcomer to be starting out at that pace is going to be tough. There may be the odd guy who makes it big or at least does well in swinging conditions ... but, I'd be sceptical about most.

[dhruvdeepak]

raina is looking good out there.
asnodkar was poor overall, and trivedi is another one of those 120+ fellows by the looks of it. and to answer your qu manee, do you think any of these guys has or will have the control, guile and experience of polly, vaas...

[manee]

I hope they find a way to increase his pace without sacrificing his brilliant accuracy and swing. For somebody to take that many wickets at his pace takes a lot of talent. Personally, I think that weight training alone could take him up to about 130kph but that being said, his action leaves a lot to be desired. Experience is a way to succeed at that pace but not the only way; if somebody is taking wickets at an average under 22 and not going for runs either, you cannot say that they are not international standard. Karthik and Sehwag are talented players and he got them both out.

I think 125kph is about the lower limit for a medium pacer, so I think Kumar's pace is fine.

[manee]

The ball not carrying to the keeper

[keep-it-cool]

Well, manee, I dont hold any number sacrosanct when it is achieved in the domestic tournaments ... pitches are often substandard.. of late, they have been very helpful for pacers. Can you imagine Joginder Sharma or J P Yadav having any impact at the international level other than as holding bowlers who can wield the bat? Both of them were also among the leading wicket takers in domestic cricket.

I am afraid the step up to international level is too steep ... the same swing which gets these guys wickets at the domestic level would be easily negotiated by international batsmen given the slow pace.

[broadbat]

Karthik and Sehwag are talented players and he got them both out.

Quite true but in their current form it looks like anyone can get them out!

[dhruvdeepak]

I hope they find a way to increase his pace without sacrificing his brilliant accuracy and swing. For somebody to take that many wickets at his pace takes a lot of talent. Personally, I think that weight training alone could take him up to about 130kph but that being said, his action leaves a lot to be desired. Experience is a way to succeed at that pace but not the only way; if somebody is taking wickets at an average under 22 and not going for runs either, you cannot say that they are not international standard. Karthik and Sehwag are talented players and he got them both out.

I think 125kph is about the lower limit for a medium pacer, so I think Kumar's pace is fine.

jai p yadav, jogi sharma, praveen kumar, robin singh are all similar bowlers for me. not penetrative enough to be top line bowlers

[manee]

Well, manee, I dont hold any number sacrosanct when it is achieved in the domestic tournaments ... pitches are often substandard.. of late, they have been very helpful for pacers. Can you imagine Joginder Sharma or J P Yadav having any impact at the international level other than as holding bowlers who can wield the bat? Both of them were also among the leading wicket takers in domestic cricket.

I am afraid the step up to international level is too steep ... the same swing which gets these guys wickets at the domestic level would be easily negotiated by international batsmen given the slow pace.

I think that anyone averaging under 23 with the ball deserves at least one chance to prove themselves at international level. He must be doing something right, domestic batsman and pitches cannot be that bad.

[pieterSAN]

substandard bowling, poor batting and terrible fielding.

[manee]

jai p yadav, jogi sharma, praveen kumar, robin singh are all similar bowlers for me. not penetrative enough to be top line bowlers

Kumar has a far better List A record than all of them and has produced the goods at A team level too.

[pieterSAN]

Well, manee, I dont hold any number sacrosanct when it is achieved in the domestic tournaments ... pitches are often substandard.. of late, they have been very helpful for pacers. Can you imagine Joginder Sharma or J P Yadav having any impact at the international level other than as holding bowlers who can wield the bat? Both of them were also among the leading wicket takers in domestic cricket.

I am afraid the step up to international level is too steep ... the same swing which gets these guys wickets at the domestic level would be easily negotiated by international batsmen given the slow pace.

I think that anyone averaging under 23 with the ball deserves at least one chance to prove themselves at international level. He must be doing something right, domestic batsman and pitches cannot be that bad.

This argument sounds really good but I am afraid I have no hope for the likes Praveen Kumar opening the attack. I can only imagine the likes of Hayden walking down the track and powering the ball to all parts of the ground.

[manee]

This argument sounds really good but I am afraid I have no hope for the likes Praveen Kumar opening the attack. I can only imagine the likes of Hayden walking down the track and powering the ball to all parts of the ground.

When in form, Hayden can do that to anyone.

EDIT: I have seen clips of Kumar and although the speed gun disagrees with me, his bouncer rises viciously at times too.

Raina making a good case for himself currently - picking apart the military medium pacers.

[pieterSAN]

This argument sounds really good but I am afraid I have no hope for the likes Praveen Kumar opening the attack. I can only imagine the likes of Hayden walking down the track and powering the ball to all parts of the ground.

When in form, Hayden can do that to anyone.

Right....so why make it easier for him? Kumar is not really that accurate to begin with and remains one dimensional because he cannot bowl quick. If we pick him it will be as a 5th bowler. To think that he can replace Zak or SS is ridiculous.

[dhruvdeepak]

Well, manee, I dont hold any number sacrosanct when it is achieved in the domestic tournaments ... pitches are often substandard.. of late, they have been very helpful for pacers. Can you imagine Joginder Sharma or J P Yadav having any impact at the international level other than as holding bowlers who can wield the bat? Both of them were also among the leading wicket takers in domestic cricket.

I am afraid the step up to international level is too steep ... the same swing which gets these guys wickets at the domestic level would be easily negotiated by international batsmen given the slow pace.

I think that anyone averaging under 23 with the ball deserves at least one chance to prove themselves at international level. He must be doing something right, domestic batsman and pitches cannot be that bad.

This argument sounds really good but I am afraid I have no hope for the likes Praveen Kumar opening the attack. I can only imagine the likes of Hayden walking down the track and powering the ball to all parts of the ground.

totally agree. just watching them is enough to tell that they wont survive at the intl level as fulltime bowlers. not these type of bowlers - i mean look at praveen kumar, he has practically 2 different actions for his outswinger and inswinger. Rahane was BOWLED today because he didnt know what was coming to him...but really anyone watching on tv can tell what he is going to bowl. just the fact that he opened the bowling tells me the standard of cricket going on out there
im afraid we have gone through a long period in the 90s supporting bowlers like this - thiru kumaran comes to mind. barring some incredible exception, they dont work. average and strike rates notwithstanding. definitely they deserve a look at this level, probably also at the 'A' level, but that is pretty much where it ends

meanwhile Raina is looking class, finding it easy against these guys

[manee]

Right....so why make it easier for him? Kumar is not really that accurate to begin with and remains one dimensional because he cannot bowl quick. If we pick him it will be as a 5th bowler. To think that he can replace Zak or SS is ridiculous.

Yes, it would be ridiculous for him to replace Zak - because Zak rules. But Sreesanth can barely string two good ODI performances together and has failed at List A level too. This is the problem with India, always looking for talent, never looking for performers. If a good domestic record goes ignored for international selection, what is the point of domestic cricket?

[dhruvdeepak]

Right....so why make it easier for him? Kumar is not really that accurate to begin with and remains one dimensional because he cannot bowl quick. If we pick him it will be as a 5th bowler. To think that he can replace Zak or SS is ridiculous.

Yes, it would be ridiculous for him to replace Zak - because Zak rules. But Sreesanth can barely string two good ODI performances together and has failed at List A level too. This is the problem with India, always looking for talent, never looking for performers. If a good domestic record goes ignored for international selection, what is the point of domestic cricket?

that is the question isnt it. there is not too much point except for uncovering some 'diamonds' in the rough. just look at the standard of cricket in this tournament and it will tell you a story. a good domestic record at this low a skill level (compared to intl level or english county, aussie domestic) does not count for that much precisely because it does not provide any sort of indication of how the player will fare at the intl level. that is the sad state of things. you have to go by eye.

[manee]

totally agree. just watching them is enough to tell that they wont survive at the intl level as fulltime bowlers. not these type of bowlers - i mean look at praveen kumar, he has practically 2 different actions for his outswinger and inswinger. Rahane was BOWLED today because he didnt know what was coming to him...but really anyone watching on tv can tell what he is going to bowl. just the fact that he opened the bowling tells me the standard of cricket going on out there
im afraid we have gone through a long period in the 90s supporting bowlers like this - thiru kumaran comes to mind. barring some incredible exception, they dont work. average and strike rates notwithstanding. definitely they deserve a look at this level, probably also at the 'A' level, but that is pretty much where it ends

meanwhile Raina is looking class, finding it easy against these guys

Kumaran DID NOT have a good List A record, hence he did not succeed at ODI cricket. Kumar has done very well at List A cricket.

Yep, Raina seems to be doing well. He is an undoubted talent. Scoring at that rate, in this situation takes talent. If you take away ODIs, Raina averages well over 60 in One Day cricket - lets hope he is given an oppotunity and can cement a place in the side. I have always really rated him. He is a magnificent fielder at times too.

[manee]

that is the question isnt it. there is not too much point except for uncovering some 'diamonds' in the rough. just look at the standard of cricket in this tournament and it will tell you a story. a good domestic record at this low a skill level (compared to intl level or english county, aussie domestic) does not count for that much precisely because it does not provide any sort of indication of how the player will fare at the intl level. that is the sad state of things. you have to go by eye.

Ok. Domestic cricket may be a low level, but Kumar performed with the new ball once against South Africa A and several times against Sri Lanka A. Nobody can argue that these two did not have good batting line ups.

Can anyone give me some rough figures of how quick Ishant has been bowling. Has he touched 145kph?

[pieterSAN]

Right....so why make it easier for him? Kumar is not really that accurate to begin with and remains one dimensional because he cannot bowl quick. If we pick him it will be as a 5th bowler. To think that he can replace Zak or SS is ridiculous.

Yes, it would be ridiculous for him to replace Zak - because Zak rules. But Sreesanth can barely string two good ODI performances together and has failed at List A level too. This is the problem with India, always looking for talent, never looking for performers. If a good domestic record goes ignored for international selection, what is the point of domestic cricket?

that is the question isnt it. there is not too much point except for uncovering some 'diamonds' in the rough. just look at the standard of cricket in this tournament and it will tell you a story. a good domestic record at this low a skill level (compared to intl level or english county, aussie domestic) does not count for that much

This has been the subject of much debate, manee. We have been talking about overhauling the system since the the domestic level does not have a concentration of skilled players - there too many players with substandard skills who dilute that level.

BTW - I (probably the only one on this DG) don't believe in the idea of talent as it used by many. I believe in skills and the likes of Sreesanth, Zak and RPS have skills.

[keep-it-cool]

Well, manee, I dont hold any number sacrosanct when it is achieved in the domestic tournaments ... pitches are often substandard.. of late, they have been very helpful for pacers. Can you imagine Joginder Sharma or J P Yadav having any impact at the international level other than as holding bowlers who can wield the bat? Both of them were also among the leading wicket takers in domestic cricket.

I am afraid the step up to international level is too steep ... the same swing which gets these guys wickets at the domestic level would be easily negotiated by international batsmen given the slow pace.

I think that anyone averaging under 23 with the ball deserves at least one chance to prove themselves at international level. He must be doing something right, domestic batsman and pitches cannot be that bad.

I dont mind giving him a chance to prove himself ... am just not hopeful that he will make it. If he surprises me, I'll only be too glad.

[manee]

This has been the subject of much debate, manee. We have been talking about overhauling the system since the the domestic level does not have a concentration of skilled players - there too many players with substandard skills who dilute that level.

BTW - I (probably the only one on this DG) don't believe in the idea of talent as it used by many. I believe in skills and the likes of Sreesanth, Zak and RPS have skills.

The example of Sreesanth's poor List A record was a poor one from me I have to say since he has added 10-15kph since going to international level. Same with RP Singh. Sure, you can uncover diamonds in the rough, you can in every system, but you cannot ignore performers.

I agree that the system is diluted with too many crap players. I think that there should be just about 16 domestic teams. No plate league at all. The integration of good players from Plate teams into the Super league will raise the standard considerably. I think the presence of the zonal competition just shows that the BCCI do not have faith in domestic cricket as a high level, this is a sad reality.

[keep-it-cool]

I like Raina's approach here .. keeping the scoreboard ticking at a very healthy rate despite the fall of early wickets. No platform building for him.

This is why I am frustrated that the seniors have been rested ... how does one take any call as to whether he can do this against better bowlers?