Print

Please post once and this message will disappear! Introduce yourself, say hello, jump into a discussion...

[kban1]

I agree with Vick.

SRT's struggles notwithstanding, there was still enough in the wicket + conditions for the first 45 min to 1 hr.

[Libran]

Irrespective of whether SRT struggled or not, the fact remains that the opening partnership ensured that the Aussies did not make early inroads...and the 91 partnership came from the blades of SRT and SG is no coincidence

[dhruvdeepak]

bah.

SG>Gilly
Hayden>SRT
Yuvi>Ponting
Dhoni>Clarke
Symonds>Dravid
Uthappa>Hodge
Hopes>Pathan
Bhajji>Hogg
Kartik>Johnson
RP Singh>Bracken
Lee>Zak

Man to man today, India>Aus. QED 

[keep-it-cool]

I agree with Vick.

SRT's struggles notwithstanding, there was still enough in the wicket + conditions for the first 45 min to 1 hr.

there was .. but SRT pretty much struggled throughout .. conditions or no conditions. He was poor, but it was his day.

[kban1]

yes, SRt played one of his, if not his most scratchiest innings ever.

Considering how he began, I thought he did well to end up where he did. It was just his day from a luck perspective.

[Libran]

Is GG really injured?

I have so far read that he (a) was hit by SS, (b) slipped (c) strained his groin. Not that all of these absolutely can't happen together.

Also, I thought Mohali was a fastish track, why do they want to play more spinners than pacers?

And wow, we now have a coach who can take the bull by his horns !!!... in fact I read somewhere (but can't find it now) that DBV has already said he was misinterpreted: His statement applied to every player in the team, not sure if that was a reaction to Rajput.

SS hit GG...GG went after him , slipped and ...ouch.... there ..that is the story of the strained groin 

[Vick]

SRT showed his version of Indian magic today. Lulled everyone into believing that the pitch is extremely difficult to bat on.

Unfortunately, Gilly and Hayden do not believe in magic.

Even when YS,MSD,RU batted there was hardly any visible difficulities ...
But those are Maharathi's and not Sarthi's. They do what ordinary players can't !

well in first 15 odd overs ball did move a lot. There was a lot of swing and i would blame SRT too much. Though he should have tried to hit little more after these bowlers were gone. BTW wth punter didnt bowl Lee's overs? And i think conditions in North India are very different for first couple of hours specially when its a 9AM start.

I dont think it was as difficult as is being made out. And, SRT struggled throughout his innings - not just in the first few overs.

Disagree with you on that. The way ball was moving and we would/should have folded quite easily. How many of the next in line batsmen are good against swinging ball? And while SRT kept strgulling against low bounce and swing(some was still there till quite late) he socred many in his last 80 balls then first 40-45.

[Vick]

Irrespective of whether SRT struggled or not, the fact remains that the opening partnership ensured that the Aussies did not make early inroads...and the 91 partnership came from the blades of SRT and SG is no coincidence

I think we should start playing a bit like Pakistan does in ODI. Try to save wickets in early overs and go hard in last 20. Our openers have slowed down a bit but we have better hitter lower down the order than we used to. Also the new ball makes run scoring easier. So i would be fine if we are 40-45/0 at the end of first 10.

[kingcool1432]

BTW, second stumping off pathan in 3 matches

[RicePlateReddy]

1. SRT's luck and reprieves were a welcome break after some very harsh decisions in England that took away from him when he was fluent. His blow hot - blow cold is very frustrating for us as much as it must be for him. It was the worst innings of his that I watched too, kban, and he looked okay only when past 40.

2. What happened to all of you who laughed at Murali Kartik? I know. You all laughed one game too early  But since I was complaining abut the colonel, credit to DBV for playing him. I think Kartik gets more rap than he deserves and he is more or less in the same league as Pawar in bowling, a better fielder and a better bat.

[OldPal]

2. What happened to all of you who laughed at Murali Kartik? I know. You all laughed one game too early  But since I was complaining abut the colonel, credit to DBV for playing him. I think Kartik gets more rap than he deserves and he is more or less in the same league as Pawar in bowling, a better fielder and a better bat.

I was one who was sceptial of letting him play - as i read he was workign with media after his stint with middlesex ..was not sure if he should make the cut immediately... but he looked to be in touch .. I think the Indians read the wicket well and went with two full time spinners.

[OldPal]

There are some writers who survive by hero worship and every run their hero scores want to dig the new record ...
Here is one .


http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2007/oct/08ten.htm

Plethora of records for Tendulkar
Rajneesh Gupta | October 08, 2007
During his innings of 79 against Australia in the fourth one-day international in Chandigarh on Monday, Tendulkar got a few important records on his name.
Tendulkar became the highest run-scorer against Australia in one-day internationals when his score reached 23. He surpassed Desmond Haynes' tally of 2,262 runs. Interestingly, Tendulkar needed 13 matches lesser than Haynes to obliterate his record.
Highest run-aggregates against Australia Runs  Batsman Mts Avg 100s 50s
2321 Sachin Tendulkar [Images] 51 45.51 7 12
2262 Desmond Haynes 64 40.39 6 13
2187 Viv Richards [Images] 54 50.86 3 20
1858 Brian Lara [Images] 51 39.53 3 15
1610 Jonty Rhodes [Images] 55 40.25 0 10
Tendulkar's half-century was 84th of his career, which puts him ahead of Pakistan's Inzamam-ul-Haq [Images]. Tendulkar has now scored more fifties than any other batsman in ODI history. He already holds the record of scoring most number of centuries.
Most fifties in ODIs (excluding centuries): 50s  Batsman Mts Inns
84 Sachin Tendulkar 399 389
83 Inzamam-ul-Haq 378 350
81 Rahul Dravid [Images] 331 306
71 Sourav Ganguly [Images] 304 293
64 Sanath Jayasuriya 401 390
64 Aravinda de Silva 308 296
When his score reached 53, Tendulkar completed his 1,000 runs in ODIs in the calendar year 2007. He is the second Indian after Sourav Ganguly (1,065 runs) and seventh batsman overall to accomplish this feat this year.
Tendulkar has now aggregated 1,000 runs in a calendar year on seven occasions - in 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003 and 2007, which is also another world record. Tendulkar was earlier at level with fellow teammate Ganguly.
Most times 1000 runs in a calendar year
7    Sachin Tendulkar
6    Sourav Ganguly
5    Ricky Ponting [Images]
4    Sanath Jayasuriya

[justforkix]

I didn't watch the game today, but to me, it seems like SG and SRT went overboard with their caution approach today. I hope they drop the ball and start taking those quick singles in the coming games. IMO, looks like the 20-run last over and 6 of the last ball finally made the difference. We can't bank on this happening every game. Anyways, the formula of preserving wickets and make a dash in the end seems to be working - our last 3-4 ODI wins + 20-20 wins.

[OldPal]

With this game .. I think the difference was having YS at 1 down and MSD following him after the 91 run stand.
RU the way the treated yorkers was great .. moved down the pitch , even when Gilli was up and converted them into Full .
A forgetful inngs for SRT , but did average out lot of his past bad decisions .

[dhruvdeepak]

2. What happened to all of you who laughed at Murali Kartik? I know. You all laughed one game too early  Grin But since I was complaining abut the colonel, credit to DBV for playing him. I think Kartik gets more rap than he deserves and he is more or less in the same league as Pawar in bowling, a better fielder and a better bat.

KoP, chalk one up to dumb luck. there is no way the selectors followed Kartik in Lancashire. they likely looked at the scoresheets and said "AH look at his average and strike rate, we must pick him."

[Vick]

I didn't watch the game today, but to me, it seems like SG and SRT went overboard with their caution approach today. I hope they drop the ball and start taking those quick singles in the coming games. IMO, looks like the 20-run last over and 6 of the last ball finally made the difference. We can't bank on this happening every game. Anyways, the formula of preserving wickets and make a dash in the end seems to be working - our last 3-4 ODI wins + 20-20 wins.

you can do such things only if you make contact with the ball. Most of the time they(SRT mostly, SG scored lot faster in their partnership) were far away from the ball. Also unlike Aussies who stand a meter infornt of the line if the ball is swinging SRT prolly didnt do it because of pace. Lee was swinging the ball at 150+ KMPH.

[OldPal]

BTW, second stumping off pathan in 3 matches

Here is the ponting surprise :

<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8456434087684126943" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8456434087684126943</a>

[OldPal]

I didn't watch the game today, but to me, it seems like SG and SRT went overboard with their caution approach today. I hope they drop the ball and start taking those quick singles in the coming games. IMO, looks like the 20-run last over and 6 of the last ball finally made the difference. We can't bank on this happening every game. Anyways, the formula of preserving wickets and make a dash in the end seems to be working - our last 3-4 ODI wins + 20-20 wins.

you can do such things only if you make contact with the ball. Most of the time they(SRT mostly, SG scored lot faster in their partnership) were far away from the ball. Also unlike Aussies who stand a meter infornt of the line if the ball is swinging SRT prolly didnt do it because of pace. Lee was swinging the ball at 150+ KMPH.

This is from crookinfo and not from me...

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/indvaus/content/story/314497.html

Tendulkar at sea
An outstanding opening spell from Lee made Sachin Tendulkar look helpless at the crease. He was beaten on the drive by fast outswingers, surprised by a couple of bouncers, survived two close appeals; for caught behind when Snicko suggested an inside edge and a lbw shout when the ball might have clipped leg stump. Tendulkar had his troubles against the other bowlers as well; Nathan Bracken rapped him on the pads first ball and Mitchell Johnson's bounce hit him on the shoulder of his bat. Tendulkar changed his bat twice during his innings and managed to weather the storm.

Add to it :

Caught napping
Tendulkar had battled to survive and reached a well-earned half-century before a utter lapse in concentration brought about his dismissal. He tried to paddle-sweep Hopes but missed and was hit on the pad. The Australians went up in appeal for leg before while Tendulkar had wandered to the middle of the pitch, his attention focused on Steve Bucknor's finger. No one realised that the ball had gone to Lee at short fine leg who swooped on it and threw down the stumps while Gilchrist was still appealing and Tendulkar was yards short.
=============

PT>
Wasn't his dismissal weired ..
Appealed for LBW and you run , Yes it was dhonis call but did he call ?

RD was also seen by himself in most of the team celeberations at end... MSD has to work hard to bridge the junior senior gap .. This time though he has to work from different angle.. I somehow feel seniors are thinking they are unwanted in team now 
 

[LosingNow]

SRT showed his version of Indian magic today. Lulled everyone into believing that the pitch is extremely difficult to bat on.

Unfortunately, Gilly and Hayden do not believe in magic.

Even when YS,MSD,RU batted there was hardly any visible difficulities ...
But those are Maharathi's and not Sarthi's. They do what ordinary players can't !

well in first 15 odd overs ball did move a lot. There was a lot of swing and i would blame SRT too much. Though he should have tried to hit little more after these bowlers were gone. BTW wth punter didnt bowl Lee's overs? And i think conditions in North India are very different for first couple of hours specially when its a 9AM start.

I dont think it was as difficult as is being made out. And, SRT struggled throughout his innings - not just in the first few overs.

Disagree with you on that. The way ball was moving and we would/should have folded quite easily. How many of the next in line batsmen are good against swinging ball? And while SRT kept strgulling against low bounce and swing(some was still there till quite late) he socred many in his last 80 balls then first 40-45.

I completely disagree with you on this one. The team would have survived and probably scored 300+ ( a much more secure score). The ball was doing something but not as much that SRT couldn't even put a bat to it.. heck, SG was able to (for god's sake!). SRT was in awful form.. he was swinging and missing, not getting in line, inside-edging hittable outside off balls and doing everything wrong. It was one of those days. (The commentators were discussing "has all this youth talk put him under pressure and is he succumbing to pressure"). Even the most dedicated of SRT's fans would not wish such an innings from SRT for Indian cricket.
RU and MSD saved the day.. with 134/1 in 30 overs, 202/2 in 40, 235/3 in 45 and 291/4 in 50.. the game was won in the last 5 overs during which MSD 16(8 balls), RU 30(18) and RD 8(4) were the contributors. Wish MSD had sent RU ahead of RD at  end of over 42 [we scored 5, 5, 4 runs in 43rd, 44th and 45th overs respectively with RD scoring 5(9) and MSD 6(9) ] we would have crossed 300!

[Vick]

SRT showed his version of Indian magic today. Lulled everyone into believing that the pitch is extremely difficult to bat on.

Unfortunately, Gilly and Hayden do not believe in magic.

Even when YS,MSD,RU batted there was hardly any visible difficulities ...
But those are Maharathi's and not Sarthi's. They do what ordinary players can't !

well in first 15 odd overs ball did move a lot. There was a lot of swing and i would blame SRT too much. Though he should have tried to hit little more after these bowlers were gone. BTW wth punter didnt bowl Lee's overs? And i think conditions in North India are very different for first couple of hours specially when its a 9AM start.

I dont think it was as difficult as is being made out. And, SRT struggled throughout his innings - not just in the first few overs.

Disagree with you on that. The way ball was moving and we would/should have folded quite easily. How many of the next in line batsmen are good against swinging ball? And while SRT kept strgulling against low bounce and swing(some was still there till quite late) he socred many in his last 80 balls then first 40-45.

I completely disagree with you on this one. The team would have survived and probably scored 300+ ( a much more secure score). The ball was doing something but not as much that SRT couldn't even put a bat to it.. heck, SG was able to (for god's sake!). SRT was in awful form.. he was swinging and missing, not getting in line, inside-edging hittable outside off balls and doing everything wrong. It was one of those days. (The commentators were discussing "has all this youth talk put him under pressure and is he succumbing to pressure"). Even the most dedicated of SRT's fans would not wish such an innings from SRT for Indian cricket.
RU and MSD saved the day.. with 134/1 in 30 overs, 202/2 in 40, 235/3 in 45 and 291/4 in 50.. the game was won in the last 5 overs during which MSD 16(8 balls), RU 30(18) and RD 8(4) were the contributors. Wish MSD had sent RU ahead of RD at  end of over 42 [we scored 5, 5, 4 runs in 43rd, 44th and 45th overs respectively with RD scoring 5(9) and MSD 6(9) ] we would have crossed 300!

when was the last time team scored 300 without a substential opening partnership? I dont have confidence in the middle order of Uthappa, MSD and Yuvi facing the swinging ball and surviving. As i said earlier we have better hitter in the team now than say 3 years back. We should look at saving wickets in early part of game and score lot more in last 20.
I am not saying SRT wasnt in aweful form. He was but it was good for the team that the openers survived first 20 overs so middle order could take advantage.

[LosingNow]

SRT showed his version of Indian magic today. Lulled everyone into believing that the pitch is extremely difficult to bat on.

Unfortunately, Gilly and Hayden do not believe in magic.

Even when YS,MSD,RU batted there was hardly any visible difficulities ...
But those are Maharathi's and not Sarthi's. They do what ordinary players can't !

well in first 15 odd overs ball did move a lot. There was a lot of swing and i would blame SRT too much. Though he should have tried to hit little more after these bowlers were gone. BTW wth punter didnt bowl Lee's overs? And i think conditions in North India are very different for first couple of hours specially when its a 9AM start.

I dont think it was as difficult as is being made out. And, SRT struggled throughout his innings - not just in the first few overs.

Disagree with you on that. The way ball was moving and we would/should have folded quite easily. How many of the next in line batsmen are good against swinging ball? And while SRT kept strgulling against low bounce and swing(some was still there till quite late) he socred many in his last 80 balls then first 40-45.

I completely disagree with you on this one. The team would have survived and probably scored 300+ ( a much more secure score). The ball was doing something but not as much that SRT couldn't even put a bat to it.. heck, SG was able to (for god's sake!). SRT was in awful form.. he was swinging and missing, not getting in line, inside-edging hittable outside off balls and doing everything wrong. It was one of those days. (The commentators were discussing "has all this youth talk put him under pressure and is he succumbing to pressure"). Even the most dedicated of SRT's fans would not wish such an innings from SRT for Indian cricket.
RU and MSD saved the day.. with 134/1 in 30 overs, 202/2 in 40, 235/3 in 45 and 291/4 in 50.. the game was won in the last 5 overs during which MSD 16(8 balls), RU 30(18) and RD 8(4) were the contributors. Wish MSD had sent RU ahead of RD at  end of over 42 [we scored 5, 5, 4 runs in 43rd, 44th and 45th overs respectively with RD scoring 5(9) and MSD 6(9) ] we would have crossed 300!

when was the last time team scored 300 without a substential opening partnership? I dont have confidence in the middle order of Uthappa, MSD and Yuvi facing the swinging ball and surviving. As i said earlier we have better hitter in the team now than say 3 years back. We should look at saving wickets in early part of game and score lot more in last 20.
I am not saying SRT wasnt in aweful form. He was but it was good for the team that the openers survived first 20 overs so middle order could take advantage.

Of course, we need good opening partnerships to score big...and you are right we were lucky that SRT survived ..because what SRT did y'day and the amount of luck he had..even RPS would have given us that partnership. My point is the partnership was more luck than skill.. and let's not use this partnership to further the notion that the maharathis' opening partnership won us the game (which is what will happen when some # crunching guy(s) looking at this innings 1 month from now will say ..look great average, great SR etc etc).

[OldPal]

what openeing partnership are we talking here
The partnership got broken twice in 3 overs.... Thanks to umpire !!!Let us not fool ourselves by saying they negotiated the tough conditions ..

1.1
Bracken to Tendulkar, no run, Huge appeal for a lbw. Some good inswing rightaway. It was full, on the middle and leg and curved in to strike the front pad. Going down leg side though. Tendulkar was dismissed by such a inswinging delivery in the first game. Johnson was the bowler then.
PT>This was out .

2.4 Lee to Tendulkar, no run, shout for a catch behind. Tendulkar's woes continue. This one lands on a length, outside the off stump and goes on straight, Tendulkar, based on the two previous deliveries, gets his bat outside the line, covering for the outswing and is beaten as the ball goes through the bat and pad gap. There seemed to be no deflection but ... the b>snickometer reveals that Tendulkar had got a inside edge 

[gouravk]

True, it was one of the worst innings ever by Sachin Tendulkar, but it just goes to prove that SRT and SG in atrocious form are still preferrable to Gambhir in his best form.

[OldPal]

True, it was one of the worst innings ever by Sachin Tendulkar, but it just goes to prove that SRT and SG in atrocious form are still preferrable to Gambhir in his best form.

Om namah Shivvvyaaaa... Are Prabhu, hamne to GambhirJi ki baat hi nahi ki abhi !!!!

[WicketView]

what openeing partnership are we talking here
The partnership got broken twice in 3 overs.... Thanks to umpire !!!Let us not fool ourselves by saying they negotiated the tough conditions ..

1.1
Bracken to Tendulkar, no run, Huge appeal for a lbw. Some good inswing rightaway. It was full, on the middle and leg and curved in to strike the front pad. Going down leg side though. Tendulkar was dismissed by such a inswinging delivery in the first game. Johnson was the bowler then.
PT>This was out .

2.4 Lee to Tendulkar, no run, shout for a catch behind. Tendulkar's woes continue. This one lands on a length, outside the off stump and goes on straight, Tendulkar, based on the two previous deliveries, gets his bat outside the line, covering for the outswing and is beaten as the ball goes through the bat and pad gap. There seemed to be no deflection but ... the b>snickometer reveals that Tendulkar had got a inside edge 

I would call those correct decisions. If there seems to be no deflection visible, even if the snicko shows a snick, the decision should be not out. The previous one says it is going down the leg. Tendulkar obviously played badly, but kudos to the umpire for getting it right.

[gouravk]

Oh please its not just the snicko ... on the replay we saw the nick ... ok ... maybe the deviation was not too much ... but the nick was there ... I can understand if you say it was a tough decision to make ... but to say it is the correct decision is to take things a bit too far.

[gouravk]

So, in all earnestness, SSs contribution in this game CANNOT be underestimated.

[OldPal]

what openeing partnership are we talking here
The partnership got broken twice in 3 overs.... Thanks to umpire !!!Let us not fool ourselves by saying they negotiated the tough conditions ..

1.1
Bracken to Tendulkar, no run, Huge appeal for a lbw. Some good inswing rightaway. It was full, on the middle and leg and curved in to strike the front pad. Going down leg side though. Tendulkar was dismissed by such a inswinging delivery in the first game. Johnson was the bowler then.
PT>This was out .

2.4 Lee to Tendulkar, no run, shout for a catch behind. Tendulkar's woes continue. This one lands on a length, outside the off stump and goes on straight, Tendulkar, based on the two previous deliveries, gets his bat outside the line, covering for the outswing and is beaten as the ball goes through the bat and pad gap. There seemed to be no deflection but ... the b>snickometer reveals that Tendulkar had got a inside edge 

I would call those correct decisions. If there seems to be no deflection visible, even if the snicko shows a snick, the decision should be not out. The previous one says it is going down the leg. Tendulkar obviously played badly, but kudos to the umpire for getting it right.

WV, i am sure you may have watched it -- LBW's are always close call ,but please watch the first 90 seconds of the video..

<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=3360141582292327641" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=3360141582292327641</a>

[WicketView]

what openeing partnership are we talking here
The partnership got broken twice in 3 overs.... Thanks to umpire !!!Let us not fool ourselves by saying they negotiated the tough conditions ..

1.1
Bracken to Tendulkar, no run, Huge appeal for a lbw. Some good inswing rightaway. It was full, on the middle and leg and curved in to strike the front pad. Going down leg side though. Tendulkar was dismissed by such a inswinging delivery in the first game. Johnson was the bowler then.
PT>This was out .

2.4 Lee to Tendulkar, no run, shout for a catch behind. Tendulkar's woes continue. This one lands on a length, outside the off stump and goes on straight, Tendulkar, based on the two previous deliveries, gets his bat outside the line, covering for the outswing and is beaten as the ball goes through the bat and pad gap. There seemed to be no deflection but ... the b>snickometer reveals that Tendulkar had got a inside edge 

I would call those correct decisions. If there seems to be no deflection visible, even if the snicko shows a snick, the decision should be not out. The previous one says it is going down the leg. Tendulkar obviously played badly, but kudos to the umpire for getting it right.

WV, i am sure you may have watched it -- LBW's are always close call ,but please watch the first 90 seconds of the video..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3360141582292327641&q=aus+india+chnadigarh&total=23&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Thanks for the video. We can discuss it more clearly.

Look at the ball .... it is delivered along an angular path, would have missed the off stump easily had it not changed course. It straightens pretty viciously after pitching, and strikes SRT on the kneeroll of front pads. At that point, it is not going perpendicular to the stumps, it is angled slightly towards leg  (aside: fantastic  delivery no? How much that deviated!) and strikes SRT playing on the front foot though not too forward , on or just above the knee roll of the front pad, with the leg being a feet outside the crease. To me that looked pretty certainly not going down leg (as the CI commentary suggested), but honestly, I think it is difficult to say that it would not have gone over the stumps. My feeling is it would hit the top part of the stumps, but I  watched  the video a few times since yesterday, know everyone agrees it is out. For the umpire, I think it is reasonably to have doubt on that. And by the laws of cricket, he should call that not out.

GouravK,

You saw the snick on the replay. But you also know the umpire does not get that, right?

[Vick]

Oh please its not just the snicko ... on the replay we saw the nick ... ok ... maybe the deviation was not too much ... but the nick was there ... I can understand if you say it was a tough decision to make ... but to say it is the correct decision is to take things a bit too far.

But how would you hear that when there 40000 people screaming withing 70-80 meters of you?

[Vick]

SRT showed his version of Indian magic today. Lulled everyone into believing that the pitch is extremely difficult to bat on.

Unfortunately, Gilly and Hayden do not believe in magic.

Even when YS,MSD,RU batted there was hardly any visible difficulities ...
But those are Maharathi's and not Sarthi's. They do what ordinary players can't !

well in first 15 odd overs ball did move a lot. There was a lot of swing and i would blame SRT too much. Though he should have tried to hit little more after these bowlers were gone. BTW wth punter didnt bowl Lee's overs? And i think conditions in North India are very different for first couple of hours specially when its a 9AM start.

I dont think it was as difficult as is being made out. And, SRT struggled throughout his innings - not just in the first few overs.

Disagree with you on that. The way ball was moving and we would/should have folded quite easily. How many of the next in line batsmen are good against swinging ball? And while SRT kept strgulling against low bounce and swing(some was still there till quite late) he socred many in his last 80 balls then first 40-45.

I completely disagree with you on this one. The team would have survived and probably scored 300+ ( a much more secure score). The ball was doing something but not as much that SRT couldn't even put a bat to it.. heck, SG was able to (for god's sake!). SRT was in awful form.. he was swinging and missing, not getting in line, inside-edging hittable outside off balls and doing everything wrong. It was one of those days. (The commentators were discussing "has all this youth talk put him under pressure and is he succumbing to pressure"). Even the most dedicated of SRT's fans would not wish such an innings from SRT for Indian cricket.
RU and MSD saved the day.. with 134/1 in 30 overs, 202/2 in 40, 235/3 in 45 and 291/4 in 50.. the game was won in the last 5 overs during which MSD 16(8 balls), RU 30(18) and RD 8(4) were the contributors. Wish MSD had sent RU ahead of RD at  end of over 42 [we scored 5, 5, 4 runs in 43rd, 44th and 45th overs respectively with RD scoring 5(9) and MSD 6(9) ] we would have crossed 300!

when was the last time team scored 300 without a substential opening partnership? I dont have confidence in the middle order of Uthappa, MSD and Yuvi facing the swinging ball and surviving. As i said earlier we have better hitter in the team now than say 3 years back. We should look at saving wickets in early part of game and score lot more in last 20.
I am not saying SRT wasnt in aweful form. He was but it was good for the team that the openers survived first 20 overs so middle order could take advantage.

Of course, we need good opening partnerships to score big...and you are right we were lucky that SRT survived ..because what SRT did y'day and the amount of luck he had..even RPS would have given us that partnership. My point is the partnership was more luck than skill.. and let's not use this partnership to further the notion that the maharathis' opening partnership won us the game (which is what will happen when some # crunching guy(s) looking at this innings 1 month from now will say ..look great average, great SR etc etc).

I would never be one who will say couple of guys won us game. We won today because our plan worked. MSD i think feels that way to get big score is by playing safely in the start. He prolly backs his hitting skills more than defensive skills. And i wouldnt blame him there. I am quite sure if you give him option of 130/4 in 30 or 165/5 in 30 he will take first one.

[kban1]

Of course, we need good opening partnerships to score big

Thank you. This is the point some of us have emphasized for a long time. This is cricketing sense -- you build a strong foundation and with wickets in hand, we accelerate towards the end. Every captain in the world and every team believes that, which is exactly why a total at the end of 30 overs is expected to be doubled in the last 20 overs (Asuming wickets are kept in hand).

...and you are right we were lucky that SRT survived ..because what SRT did y'day and the amount of luck he had..even RPS would have given us that partnership.

SRT played poorly but lets cut out the hyperbole - RPS would have done zilch and despite SRT's scratchiest of  innings, with the morning conditions, the ball swinging, and Lee bowling at 150 kph, I doubt any of the others (barring a seasoned player of swing like RD) would have done anything different.
 

My point is the partnership was more luck than skill.. and let's not use this partnership to further the notion that the maharathis' opening partnership won us the game (which is what will happen when some # crunching guy(s) looking at this innings 1 month from now will say ..look great average, great SR etc etc

Unfortunately, it is you who has conflated the issues here.

SRT playing scratchily and being dismissed 2+ times before the actual umpire giving out has nothing to do with the value of the partnership. Yes, the partnership was luck because SRT should have been dismissed.

That has nothing to do with the concept of partnership leading to foundations that set the platform for the final total. And I can assure you that had SRT been dismissed by the umpire calling correctly, the young brigade (including Yuvi) would have been scattered like a pack of cards in a wind -- 8 times out of 10. I have seen enough of these guys to know their abilities against the swinging ball.

as far as the scorecard being misinterpreted, contrary to your opinion, its the people arguing against the value of foundations built by our maharathis who are more likely to remonstrate a month from now rather than those who you identify. In fact forget a month from now, even today you have a pack of people pouring vitriol and typing roobish all across the DG, half of whom did not even watch the game with the majority of the other half probably not even understanding the game -- as Vick said on another thread, its a difficult game to understand !!

Postscript:

RU and MSD saved the day.. with 134/1 in 30 overs, 202/2 in 40, 235/3 in 45 and 291/4 in 50.. the game was won in the last 5 overs during which MSD 16(8 balls), RU 30(18) and RD 8(4) were the contributors. Wish MSD had sent RU ahead of RD at  end of over 42 [we scored 5, 5, 4 runs in 43rd, 44th and 45th overs respectively with RD scoring 5(9) and MSD 6(9) ] we would have crossed 300!

I noticed with curiosity your above post and the timeframe you chose to show the innings progression scores --

the fact is 134/1 in 30 was after Yuvi and to a much lesser extent SRT had been tied down by the bowlers post the SG dismissal. your post makes it appear as if the 30th over was the epoch wrt innings RPO up until that point.

here is the actual progression
15 -68/0   (4.53)
20 -91/1   (4.62) - sg dismissed, SRT (18/61), YS (0/0)
25 -112/1  (4.48)                     SRT (42/80), YS (5/11)
30 -134/1  (4.46)                     SRT (47/89), YS (16/32)

For all his poor play, since the fall of SG's wicket till the end of the 30th over, SRT scored 29 runs in 28 balls, thats a SR of 103.6.

Since the fall of SG's wicket until the time SRT was dismissed, SRT scored 61 runs in 58 balls, at a SR of 105.2.

So, please do not tell me that the win was only possible due to MSD and RU. It was possible because everyone contributed and yes, it could have been better (despite the conditions at the start of the innings) had SRT not been in wretched touch at the beginning of the Indian innings, but seriously, how many times have you seen him this out of sorts throughout his career ?

[WicketView]

Of course, we need good opening partnerships to score big

Thank you. This is the point some of us have emphasized for a long time. This is cricketing sense -- you build a strong foundation and with wickets in hand, we accelerate towards the end. Every captain in the world and every team believes that, which is exactly why a total at the end of 30 overs is expected to be doubled in the last 20 overs (Asuming wickets are kept in hand).

...and you are right we were lucky that SRT survived ..because what SRT did y'day and the amount of luck he had..even RPS would have given us that partnership.

SRT played poorly but lets cut out the hyperbole - RPS would have done zilch and despite SRT's scratchiest of  innings, with the morning conditions, the ball swinging, and Lee bowling at 150 kph, I doubt any of the others (barring a seasoned player of swing like RD) would have done anything different.
 

My point is the partnership was more luck than skill.. and let's not use this partnership to further the notion that the maharathis' opening partnership won us the game (which is what will happen when some # crunching guy(s) looking at this innings 1 month from now will say ..look great average, great SR etc etc

Unfortunately, it is you who has conflated the issues here.

SRT playing scratchily and being dismissed 2+ times before the actual umpire giving out has nothing to do with the value of the partnership. Yes, the partnership was luck because SRT should have been dismissed.

That has nothing to do with the concept of partnership leading to foundations that set the platform for the final total. And I can assure you that had SRT been dismissed by the umpire calling correctly, the young brigade (including Yuvi) would have been scattered like a pack of cards in a wind -- 8 times out of 10. I have seen enough of these guys to know their abilities against the swinging ball.

as far as the scorecard being misinterpreted, contrary to your opinion, its the people arguing against the value of foundations built by our maharathis who are more likely to remonstrate a month from now rather than those who you identify. In fact forget a month from now, even today you have a pack of people pouring vitriol and typing roobish all across the DG, half of whom did not even watch the game with the majority of the other half probably not even understanding the game -- as Vick said on another thread, its a difficult game to understand !!

Postscript:

RU and MSD saved the day.. with 134/1 in 30 overs, 202/2 in 40, 235/3 in 45 and 291/4 in 50.. the game was won in the last 5 overs during which MSD 16(8 balls), RU 30(18) and RD 8(4) were the contributors. Wish MSD had sent RU ahead of RD at  end of over 42 [we scored 5, 5, 4 runs in 43rd, 44th and 45th overs respectively with RD scoring 5(9) and MSD 6(9) ] we would have crossed 300!

I noticed with curiosity your above post and the timeframe you chose to show the innings progression scores --

the fact is 134/1 in 30 was after Yuvi and to a much lesser extent SRT had been tied down by the bowlers post the SG dismissal. your post makes it appear as if the 30th over was the epoch wrt innings RPO up until that point.

here is the actual progression
15 -68/0   (4.53)
20 -91/1   (4.62) - sg dismissed, SRT (18/61), YS (0/0)
25 -112/1  (4.48)                     SRT (42/80), YS (5/11)
30 -134/1  (4.46)                     SRT (47/89), YS (16/32)

For all his poor play, since the fall of SG's wicket till the end of the 30th over, SRT scored 29 runs in 28 balls, thats a SR of 103.6.

Since the fall of SG's wicket until the time SRT was dismissed, SRT scored 61 runs in 58 balls, at a SR of 105.2.

So, please do not tell me that the win was only possible due to MSD and RU. It was possible because everyone contributed and yes, it could have been better (despite the conditions at the start of the innings) had SRT not been in wretched touch at the beginning of the Indian innings, but seriously, how many times have you seen him this out of sorts throughout his career ?

I think it is meaningless to pick out either MSD/RU or SRT/SG as the reason for the total. That   we would not have reached the total if the lower middle order had gotten out cheaply is obvious. What should also be obvious to anyone following cricket for a while, is that MSD/RU would never have accelerated that way if they were batting with 120/4 after 20 overs, even if the conditions/bowling were much more batsman friendly than they were when the openers batted.

[gouravk]

Clearly. A team effort all the way.

[kban1]

I think it is meaningless to pick out either MSD/RU or SRT/SG as the reason for the total. That   we would not have reached the total if the lower middle order had gotten out cheaply is obvious. What should also be obvious to anyone following cricket for a while, is that MSD/RU would never have accelerated that way if they were batting with 120/4 after 20 overs, even if the conditions/bowling were much more batsman friendly than they were when the openers batted.

Exactly!!

[kban1]

'Dhoni was the real star': Rameez Raja

October 8, 2007

India were mentally strong today and did not crumble in pressure situations. They showed aggressive intent and derailed Australia by muscling their way to 291. [Sourav] Ganguly and Sachin [Tendulkar] show may not have had the TV appeal but they saw India through to a difficult period against new-ball by displaying guts and technique.

Sachin got the rub of the green and he made Australia pay by concentrating on staying at the crease. Had the Indian pair not batted sensibly India could very well have been three wickets down in that early morning session. They weathered the swing, speed and variation off the pitch and provided the whole team a strong base.

Yuvraj [Singh] and [Mahendra Singh] Dhoni were promoted up the order, and India, for the first time in the series, gave a glimpse of aggressive thinking and thinking out of the box. Australia, in this series, have based their game plan around Matthew Hayden and Andrew Symonds, and they seem to think clearly in pressure situations also. Mathew Hayden has a great mix of attack and defence and he is a very fit athlete, for he based his great knock on picking those singles. Andrew Symonds has improved as a batsman and now he can play both spin as well as swing. In the late middle-order he is averaging over 50 this year with a strike rate of over 90-plus. Australia has found a match-winner in him. His wicket earned India a substantial advantage and they never looked back.

Dhoni took an aggressive risk by involving Murali Kartik in the scheme of things. Credit to Dhoni for this great piece of selection, for Murali Kartik was involved as a studio guest in one of the channels, and he responded brilliantly to this sudden wake-up call, that too against the formidable Australians.

Dhoni was the real star for India - for his aggressive captaincy, selection and performance. India's aggression paid off today and it was cricketing skills and not the verbals that got them home. The series is alive and kicking.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/talk/content/multimedia/314526.html?view=transcript

[CLR James]

Ah the benefit of hindsight! The flourishes at the end today were possible only because of the solid foundation. We must keep in mind that not so long ago, with wickets down, our captain had to play an unchracteristically sedate knock of 58, coming in at number 6, with a total of 307 to chase. He scored those runs with a strike rate of 65.90. Dhoni came in in the 15th over, with the Indian scorecard reading 87/4. So he had 35 overs to play, and had he hit at the 135 plus rate that he managed today, we would have won comfortably. What stopped him?

Tendulkar was certainly in bad form, going by reports, but to say that more than his laborious 79, it is the 8 runs that Dravid scored off 4 balls towards the end, or Dhoni's last ball six, that must be identified as the clinching factors, defies cricketing logic to say the least. What could be the reason? That we won by precisely those 8 runs? I suppose the next match the horrible oldie Tendulkar should get out first ball and let the young ones blast at 100 plus SR from the word go. we will post a total of 400 then. This skewed logic can only come from a poor understanding of the drama (negotiating bowler freshness, new ball, bowling conditions, waiting, assaulting) that go behind building an innings.

[gouravk]

Indeed indeed. Runs matter. Strike rate matters too but it is secondary. Runs are primary. A good opening partnership is an absolute must.

[amit_c]

Kban,

I have no problem with Sachin grafting a bit at the beginning, if it helps him find his rhythm as the
game progresses. It did happen yesterday after the first 40 odd runs, and after Lee/Bracken were
off the attack. His wear and tear is clearly showing, though (and justifiably so) - the timing/reflex is
pretty scratchy these days; and he looks hopelessly out of sorts against seriously good bowling.
My suspicion is that Sachin's approach would work only when we are batting first.

On the matter of RPS scoring at a better rate then Sachin, I suggest the poster take a look at
Sachin and Dravid negotiate really quick swing bowling over their careers . True cricketing treat !
I will truly miss Sachin and Dravid's batting when they are gone.

Rumours afloat that Dravid will call it ODI-quits after this series. Anyone think Sachin/Ganguly
may join him ?

[WicketView]

I didn't watch the game today, but to me, it seems like SG and SRT went overboard with their caution approach today. I hope they drop the ball and start taking those quick singles in the coming games. IMO, looks like the 20-run last over and 6 of the last ball finally made the difference. We can't bank on this happening every game. Anyways, the formula of preserving wickets and make a dash in the end seems to be working - our last 3-4 ODI wins + 20-20 wins.

I watched the Indian batting ....I don't think so. It was more a case of unable to play than being cautious. In fact some of the silly looking shots were an attempt to accelerate. In between the 10-15th over, SG made a few attempts to pressurize the bowler by a few (I think) premeditated shots, with reasonable success.