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[arjun]

I also wonder about dot ball percentage, powerplay utilisation , strike rate and strike rotation.

why? SG isn't playing, you know.

Must be his ghost then.

these stats are relevant only when he plays - else, they are to be ignored.

Surprises never cease. Who would have thought, even without Ganguly, there would be problems with poor SR, poor strike rotation, poor DBP, poor powerplay utilisation and poor score for the Indian team!

Why ?!? Yuvi is scoring at nearly run a ball.

Of course. we are talking powerplays here!

why do you have to remind people of uncomfortable truths? of course, not every one is worthy of 100's of threads and excruciating analyses of  DBP, ROS, SR, EBF et al.

Well, to be fair, arjun only reflected ... SRT did all the reminding today.

Yep, the New Age Warriors like GG,RV did not stick around long enough to remind anybody of anything!

[arjun]

Add Rohit Sarma too, now, in that list!

[justforkix]

yeah sure. let us judge youngsters based on 1-2 matches and throw them out 

[Blwe_torch]

I also wonder about dot ball percentage, powerplay utilisation , strike rate and strike rotation.

why? SG isn't playing, you know.

Must be his ghost then.

these stats are relevant only when he plays - else, they are to be ignored.

Surprises never cease. Who would have thought, even without Ganguly, there would be problems with poor SR, poor strike rotation, poor DBP, poor powerplay utilisation and poor score for the Indian team!

Why ?!? Yuvi is scoring at nearly run a ball.

Of course. we are talking powerplays here!

SG's 29(45) will end up at 70(100), whereas Yuvi's 29(45) will end up as 100(100).

And if SG manages to reach the magic figure of 100...he will sure make up for the dot-balls.

[pipsqueak]

I also wonder about dot ball percentage, powerplay utilisation , strike rate and strike rotation.

why? SG isn't playing, you know.

Must be his ghost then.

these stats are relevant only when he plays - else, they are to be ignored.

Surprises never cease. Who would have thought, even without Ganguly, there would be problems with poor SR, poor strike rotation, poor DBP, poor powerplay utilisation and poor score for the Indian team!

Why ?!? Yuvi is scoring at nearly run a ball.

Of course. we are talking powerplays here!

SG's 29(45) will end up at 70(100), whereas Yuvi's 29(45) will end up as 100(100).

hehe - let's talk about what SG would have/wouldn't have done instead of discussing TODAY's match along with ABC, DEF, ZYX, KIJ etc.   

[arjun]

yeah sure. let us judge youngsters based on 1-2 matches and throw them out 

Is not that what we do here, all the time?

[arjun]

I also wonder about dot ball percentage, powerplay utilisation , strike rate and strike rotation.

why? SG isn't playing, you know.

Must be his ghost then.

these stats are relevant only when he plays - else, they are to be ignored.

Surprises never cease. Who would have thought, even without Ganguly, there would be problems with poor SR, poor strike rotation, poor DBP, poor powerplay utilisation and poor score for the Indian team!

Why ?!? Yuvi is scoring at nearly run a ball.

Of course. we are talking powerplays here!

SG's 29(45) will end up at 70(100), whereas Yuvi's 29(45) will end up as 100(100).

hehe - let's talk about what SG would have/wouldn't have done instead of discussing TODAY's match along with ABC, DEF, ZYX, KIJ etc.   

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

[natty]

Just finished the match.. This aussie side seems to be even better than the world cup one.. The bowling is very effective and the fielding superb.

[pipsqueak]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

[arjun]

How could I ever forget!

[pipsqueak]

why did yuvraj not make sure of the remaining overs for batting practice? geez! we should have at least tried to save face!

[RicePlateReddy]

Debating on the efficacy or the place of Ganguly in the team is irrelevant. We are lacking in too many areas to threaten Australia. In spite of our 20/20 success, I see no tangible improvement after the World Cup in the 10 odd ODI games we have played. If Dravid and Ganguly are dropped, we become a better fielding side. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

[keep-it-cool]

It will be very very sad if YS does not get a slot in the test team when he is in such form.

[arjun]

Debating on the efficacy or the place of Ganguly in the team is irrelevant. We are lacking in too many areas to threaten Australia. In spite of our 20/20 success, I see no tangible improvement after the World Cup in the 10 odd ODI games we have played. If Dravid and Ganguly are dropped, we become a better fielding side. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

It is indeed irrelevant whether we DROP  currently the most consistent batsman in the side ( I wait to see if SRT/RD is dropped in future). That's how all cricket playing nations build up their team and bring about 'tangible improvement'. Yeah right.

If Ganguly is dropped, we do not become a 'better fielding side'. We become a MARGINALLY better fielding side but in the process lose a safe pair of catching hands.

[justforkix]

looks like we are playing only 20-20 cricket - batted and bowled well only for 20 overs (15-35) 

[justforkix]

I also wonder about dot ball percentage, powerplay utilisation , strike rate and strike rotation.

why? SG isn't playing, you know.

Must be his ghost then.

these stats are relevant only when he plays - else, they are to be ignored.

Surprises never cease. Who would have thought, even without Ganguly, there would be problems with poor SR, poor strike rotation, poor DBP, poor powerplay utilisation and poor score for the Indian team!

Why ?!? Yuvi is scoring at nearly run a ball.

Of course. we are talking powerplays here!

SG's 29(45) will end up at 70(100), whereas Yuvi's 29(45) will end up as 100(100).

hehe - let's talk about what SG would have/wouldn't have done instead of discussing TODAY's match along with ABC, DEF, ZYX, KIJ etc.   

you and arjun brought it up. not me.

[justforkix]

yeah sure. let us judge youngsters based on 1-2 matches and throw them out 

Is not that what we do here, all the time?

nope.

[hastalavistababy]

Interesting moves -

Brave move to finally "drop" one of the Ms at least. GG can be no worse than SG anyways.

Why Haddin was dropped and not Hodge is quite strange. maybe AUssies want to give India some chance

What are drinking recently . now a days you are failing to get out of hang over

[justforkix]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

[RicePlateReddy]

Debating on the efficacy or the place of Ganguly in the team is irrelevant. We are lacking in too many areas to threaten Australia. In spite of our 20/20 success, I see no tangible improvement after the World Cup in the 10 odd ODI games we have played. If Dravid and Ganguly are dropped, we become a better fielding side. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

It is indeed irrelevant whether we DROP  currently the most consistent batsman in the side ( I wait to see if SRT/RD is dropped in future). That's how all cricket playing nations build up their team and bring about 'tangible improvement'. Yeah right.

If Ganguly is dropped, we do not become a 'better fielding side'. We become a MARGINALLY better fielding side but in the process lose a safe pair of catching hands.

I request you to drop your victimization-by-proxy complex. You come through as the exact opposite pole of the Ganguly baiters on this DG and both you groups appear no better than school yard bullies who will go to any extent to prove an argumentative point. If Ganguly is dropped or selected and does well, we invariably see a flurry of posts from you. On the other hand, if he scores at a slow(er) pace or flops, the other group is all over him. Once you both can rid yourselves of the Ganguly mania, you will be able to see more clearly and sport a more positive attitude.

End of rant, and apologies if I have offended. I am appealing to you as I feel you may be a little more logical.

[justforkix]

Interesting moves -

Brave move to finally "drop" one of the Ms at least. GG can be no worse than SG anyways.

Why Haddin was dropped and not Hodge is quite strange. maybe AUssies want to give India some chance

What are drinking recently . now a days you are failing to get out of hang over

In the 9 ODIs that GG and SG have played together in 2007

=========================
  Gambhir                Ganguly
=========================
Runs     Balls       Runs        Balls
--------------------------------
69        75           98         110             Nagpur vs. WI 1st ODI
2          11           13          25             Cuttack  vs. WI 2nd ODI
80        107          73          99             Belfast vs. Ireland
0           7            13          22             Belfast vs. SA 1st ODI
5          11           18          24             Belfast vs. SA 3rd ODI
3          14            2            6             Southampton vs. Eng 1st ODI
51         66          59          79             Leeds vs. Eng 5th ODI
47         57          53          60             Oval vs. Eng 6th ODI
12         20          15          22             Lords vs. Eng 7th ODI

Whenever SG failed, GG also failed. Whenever SG succeeded, GG also succeeded.

[ruchir]

ZK's let off of Hayden costed 12 runs.
MSD gave a part time bowler (YS) one over too many, that too past 40 over mark. That resulted in 21 runs from that over.
SS bowled 9 overs. Surely SS would not have been as easy to hit as YS. SS gave 3 runs in 46th over, 8 runs each in 48th and 50th over. MSD needs to stop using part timers in slog overs, specially is opposition has hitters batting.

[gouravk]

MSD made the exact same mistake in the 2020 WC against NZ.

RD made the exact same mistake against England at the Oval.

Why don't people learn from mistakes

[gouravk]

It would be more intuitive if you could give a brief description of these ODIs than just put forth some numbers.

[justforkix]

It would be more intuitive if you could give a brief description of these ODIs than just put forth some numbers.

why ?!? Is it going to change your opinion on GG anyways. If he scores, it is by fluke. If he doesen't, you are proved right.

[gouravk]

Well I am always open to reevaluating my own judgements ...

[arjun]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

[justforkix]

Well I am always open to reevaluating my own judgements ...

updated with the game venues and opposition

[justforkix]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

That may mean rest of the team needs to score 178 in 21.3 overs

[Blwe_torch]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

That may mean rest of the team needs to score 178 in 21.3 overs

That is very much possible..........u can never ignore the benefits of a good opening stand.

[justforkix]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

That may mean rest of the team needs to score 178 in 21.3 overs

That is very much possible..........u can never ignore the benefits of a good opening stand.

well, it has never happened before while chasing....

[arjun]

Debating on the efficacy or the place of Ganguly in the team is irrelevant. We are lacking in too many areas to threaten Australia. In spite of our 20/20 success, I see no tangible improvement after the World Cup in the 10 odd ODI games we have played. If Dravid and Ganguly are dropped, we become a better fielding side. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

It is indeed irrelevant whether we DROP  currently the most consistent batsman in the side ( I wait to see if SRT/RD is dropped in future). That's how all cricket playing nations build up their team and bring about 'tangible improvement'. Yeah right.

If Ganguly is dropped, we do not become a 'better fielding side'. We become a MARGINALLY better fielding side but in the process lose a safe pair of catching hands.

I request you to drop your victimization-by-proxy complex. You come through as the exact opposite pole of the Ganguly baiters on this DG and both you groups appear no better than school yard bullies who will go to any extent to prove an argumentative point. If Ganguly is dropped or selected and does well, we invariably see a flurry of posts from you. On the other hand, if he scores at a slow(er) pace or flops, the other group is all over him. Once you both can rid yourselves of the Ganguly mania, you will be able to see more clearly and sport a more positive attitude.

End of rant, and apologies if I have offended. I am appealing to you as I feel you may be a little more logical.

KOP, I generally like your posts and your sincere efforts to appear objective. But you may have gone slightly overboard here. There is no complex involved as far as I am concerned. Yes, I admire Ganguly. I believe that of all the current cricketing greats, he alone has been subject to unfair treatment. Even now. ( would a clown like Niranjan Shah have the gumption to proclaim 'dropping' of someone like SRT or RD? I have debated my viewpoint, with logical arguments, whenever such cases of injustice have occurred. I have also debated, again with logic, posts by some of the forummers belittling his achievements. I have not made personal abuses, nor have I, on my own, gone out to attack or belittle other greats like Sachin or Rahul, who too I admire in equal measure. How is that bullying? And how is your holier than thou posturing in response to the points made by me in a previous post not so? And if you think by equating me with those rabid Ganguly haters you can claim a permanent perch in that high horse of yours, I wish you luck.

[Blwe_torch]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

That may mean rest of the team needs to score 178 in 21.3 overs

That is very much possible..........u can never ignore the benefits of a good opening stand.

well, it has never happened before while chasing....

Yes, but it has also never happenned that SG-SRT combo has scored only 113 runs in 29 overs while chasing a reasonable target.

[justforkix]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

That may mean rest of the team needs to score 178 in 21.3 overs

That is very much possible..........u can never ignore the benefits of a good opening stand.

well, it has never happened before while chasing....

Yes, but it has also never happenned that SG-SRT combo has scored only 113 runs in 29 overs while chasing a reasonable target.

Agreed

[Blwe_torch]

Debating on the efficacy or the place of Ganguly in the team is irrelevant. We are lacking in too many areas to threaten Australia. In spite of our 20/20 success, I see no tangible improvement after the World Cup in the 10 odd ODI games we have played. If Dravid and Ganguly are dropped, we become a better fielding side. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

It is indeed irrelevant whether we DROP  currently the most consistent batsman in the side ( I wait to see if SRT/RD is dropped in future). That's how all cricket playing nations build up their team and bring about 'tangible improvement'. Yeah right.

If Ganguly is dropped, we do not become a 'better fielding side'. We become a MARGINALLY better fielding side but in the process lose a safe pair of catching hands.

I request you to drop your victimization-by-proxy complex. You come through as the exact opposite pole of the Ganguly baiters on this DG and both you groups appear no better than school yard bullies who will go to any extent to prove an argumentative point. If Ganguly is dropped or selected and does well, we invariably see a flurry of posts from you. On the other hand, if he scores at a slow(er) pace or flops, the other group is all over him. Once you both can rid yourselves of the Ganguly mania, you will be able to see more clearly and sport a more positive attitude.

End of rant, and apologies if I have offended. I am appealing to you as I feel you may be a little more logical.

KOP, I generally like your posts and your sincere efforts to appear objective. But you may have gone slightly overboard here. There is no complex involved as far as I am concerned. Yes, I admire Ganguly. I believe that of all the current cricketing greats, he alone has been subject to unfair treatment. Even now. ( would a clown like Niranjan Shah have the gumption to proclaim 'dropping' of someone like SRT or RD? I have debated my viewpoint, with logical arguments, whenever such cases of injustice have occurred. I have also debated, again with logic, posts by some of the forummers belittling his achievements. I have not made personal abuses, nor have I, on my own, gone out to attack or belittle other greats like Sachin or Rahul, who too I admire in equal measure. How is that bullying? And how is your holier than thou posturing in response to the points made by me in a previous post not so? And if you think by equating me with those rabid Ganguly haters you can claim a permanent perch in that high horse of yours, I wish you luck.

All the current BCCI post holders are basically Ganguly-phobic. Remember, how they chose to avoid the most successful captain of India all together, while appointing a captain for the ODIs. ............Appointing Dhoni was like a neat escape-way for them.
But for politics sake, they have to grin and bear SG for a while, anyway.

[arjun]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

That may mean rest of the team needs to score 178 in 21.3 overs

This is argument merely for the sake of it. You are implying that a SG-SRT partnership would have yielded 113 runs in 171 balls. Has such a thing ever occurred in that partnership? Had the two played in tandem, either Sachin's or Ganguly's SR would have been much better, because one would have played much more freely knowing other is playing the anchor. SRT's 43 in 71 happened because on the other side Gambhir and Uthappa fell cheaply, thrusting the salvaging role on to Sachin.

[WicketView]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

That may mean rest of the team needs to score 178 in 21.3 overs

This is argument merely for the sake of it. You are implying that a SG-SRT partnership would have yielded 113 runs in 171 balls. Has such a thing ever occurred in that partnership? Had the two played in tandem, either Sachin's or Ganguly's SR would have been much better, because one would have played much more freely knowing other is playing the anchor. SRT's 43 in 71 happened because on the other side Gambhir and Uthappa fell cheaply, thrusting the salvaging role on to Sachin.

Not to speak of wides, no balls, byes and leg byes.

[WicketView]

There are two different models that one can use to get to a score. Each player can play a good innings (High SR approx 90-110) and score sizeable runs each.  I think having such players is the best option.

A second model which is not quite as good, but might be better than many others is have one person scoring a chunk of the runs, at a lower SR. Then the other players have shorter innings, but with higher strike rates. This is not desirable, but which model you follow depends on the personnel   you have. If you have a bunch of players with very high SR, and low averages, the second model is better.

[WicketView]

Interesting moves -

Brave move to finally "drop" one of the Ms at least. GG can be no worse than SG anyways.

Why Haddin was dropped and not Hodge is quite strange. maybe AUssies want to give India some chance

What are drinking recently . now a days you are failing to get out of hang over

In the 9 ODIs that GG and SG have played together in 2007

=========================
  Gambhir                Ganguly
=========================
Runs     Balls       Runs        Balls
--------------------------------
69        75           98         110             Nagpur vs. WI 1st ODI
2          11           13          25             Cuttack  vs. WI 2nd ODI
80        107          73          99             Belfast vs. Ireland
0           7            13          22             Belfast vs. SA 1st ODI
5          11           18          24             Belfast vs. SA 3rd ODI
3          14            2            6             Southampton vs. Eng 1st ODI
51         66          59          79             Leeds vs. Eng 5th ODI
47         57          53          60             Oval vs. Eng 6th ODI
12         20          15          22             Lords vs. Eng 7th ODI

Whenever SG failed, GG also failed. Whenever SG succeeded, GG also succeeded.

This is quite interesting right? We want to replace SG, who is clearly is not the same as the player he was in the early 2000s, because his game does not quite match up to the requirements. But, we are replacing him by someone who is having trouble matching his current form.

This is the crux of the problem. I don't think SG's present game is suitable for ODI ... he can kind of play the anchor, but the role is placed on him because he can't play a different role, it is not that he can blaze his sixes like before anymore, so  if he is around for 25 overs, he will not change his style and bash the bowlers. Therefore he is useful for ODI in places like Eng, where he can chip in with some useful overs, or places where you can forget about trying to hit the bowlers (like a 200-250 pitch), not otherwise. But it is imperative that he be replaced by someone who actually has these qualities. If you feel GG has these qualities, fair enough (I am open to the possibility in spite of the problems) ... but how many chances must he be given, before we give that place to a Rohit Sharma or a Badrinath ot a Tewari or a Raina?

[Vick]

VS was better than GG but he isnt even picked for Irani game. Our best Test opener in very long time cant even get a game there. Oh we are gonna check how PUJARA do. The guy who doesnt even open for his second tier Ranji team. Fu&king BS.