Print

Please post once and this message will disappear! Introduce yourself, say hello, jump into a discussion...

[gouravk]

Excellent points by Wicketview and Vick. Agree wholeheartedly. An inept opener is the primary cause of all batting problems. It is like defending a fort and keeping the main entrance wide open ...

[dextrous]

Interesting moves -

Brave move to finally "drop" one of the Ms at least. GG can be no worse than SG anyways.

Why Haddin was dropped and not Hodge is quite strange. maybe AUssies want to give India some chance

What are drinking recently . now a days you are failing to get out of hang over

In the 9 ODIs that GG and SG have played together in 2007

=========================
  Gambhir                Ganguly
=========================
Runs     Balls       Runs        Balls
--------------------------------
69        75           98         110             Nagpur vs. WI 1st ODI
2          11           13          25             Cuttack  vs. WI 2nd ODI
80        107          73          99             Belfast vs. Ireland
0           7            13          22             Belfast vs. SA 1st ODI
5          11           18          24             Belfast vs. SA 3rd ODI
3          14            2            6             Southampton vs. Eng 1st ODI
51         66          59          79             Leeds vs. Eng 5th ODI
47         57          53          60             Oval vs. Eng 6th ODI
12         20          15          22             Lords vs. Eng 7th ODI

Whenever SG failed, GG also failed. Whenever SG succeeded, GG also succeeded.

This is quite interesting right? We want to replace SG, who is clearly is not the same as the player he was in the early 2000s, because his game does not quite match up to the requirements. But, we are replacing him by someone who is having trouble matching his current form.

This is the crux of the problem. I don't think SG's present game is suitable for ODI ... he can kind of play the anchor, but the role is placed on him because he can't play a different role, it is not that he can blaze his sixes like before anymore, so  if he is around for 25 overs, he will not change his style and bash the bowlers. Therefore he is useful for ODI in places like Eng, where he can chip in with some useful overs, or places where you can forget about trying to hit the bowlers (like a 200-250 pitch), not otherwise. But it is imperative that he be replaced by someone who actually has these qualities. If you feel GG has these qualities, fair enough (I am open to the possibility in spite of the problems) ... but how many chances must he be given, before we give that place to a Rohit Sharma or a Badrinath ot a Tewari or a Raina?

This side-by-side comparison isn't very useful. Who cares if they played together or not--the comparison should be based on # of matches played, not # of matches played together.

[kban1]

India v Australia, 3rd ODI, Hyderabad

Yuvraj should play up the order - Rameez Raja

October 5, 2007

It was another tough day at the office for Indian cricket team, and the real difference was the Australian team's ability to pick up wickets. India, on all three occasions have tried to block the opposition line-up, but in vain - because they have not really tried to take wickets. This is where Australians have been good. They obviously have a superior bowling attack, which is varied and full of class, and they tend to pick up wickets. India has to ask their bowlers to do the same otherwise it could be a gone case.

The top order of India was once again rocked by the Australians. And, if you have technical problems, like for example, [Robin] Uthappa, who locks his front foot far too early, even before the ball is delivered. In fact, when the ball is in the air he is already in a locked in position, so he has to play the ball across the line; or Gautam Gambhir, who has got the tendency to play across the line, as well. Then, expect Australians to exploit that weakness.

Their athleticism in the field makes every total fat by 25 runs and that can be another nasty proposition for any opposition. India may also need to promote Yuvraj Singh up the order, because he is aggressive. Remember, it is aggression that can tease Australia, so why not introduce an aggressive player up the order before it is all too late for Yuvraj Singh. Today he played a fantastic innings but there was no-one around him to seriously target that total that was put up by Australia.

Also, there is a case for Irfan Pathan to open the bowling. He has been in great wicket taking form, he has shown big heart, he is aggressive and when he has been asked to bowl at No.3 position he hasn't been able to swing the ball. So, maybe giving him the new ball would enable him to pick up wickets up front. And remember if India are to win this series, or come close to winning it or even competing against Australia then they need to pick up early wickets and Irfan Pathan can provide them with that great platform. Sreesanth has been tried and tested, and I think Australians have conquered him both technically and mentally.

So overall, another tough day for the Indian team, but if they play their cards well, then who knows they can come close to Australia and compete quite seriously with them.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/talk/content/multimedia/313959.html?view=transcript

[kban1]

Monologue

Mikhil Bhat
 
It was a fairly quiet environment on the field yesterday. Not many war of words. Not many stares. No dances in the middle. And maybe that was why one had more cricket on display. But then one cannot forget how the Australian captain Ricky Ponting went back on his word given to match referee Chris Broad before the match.

After the 26th over in the Indian innings, with India chasing a mammoth 291 set by the Aussies, Ponting introduced Mitchell Johnson into the attack.

Indian captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni called for a helmet to which Ponting objected and there were a few exchanges. The wicket-keeper then turned to umpire Steve Bucknor and told him something.

Dhoni later explained what transpired. “Well, we had a discussion with the match referee before the start of the match on this and the discussion with the umpires was entirely about that,” Dhoni said after India went down by 47 runs. Asked whether Ponting used harsh words, he replied: “He did.” But he refused to elaborate further.

Though this was the only incident during the third ODI at the Rajiv *hi International Stadium which went sour, India had a lot of things to think about despite showing improvements in certain areas.

While the Indian bowlers lost the plot for a couple of overs towards the end after restricting the Aussie batsmen, notably man-of-the-match Andrew Symonds, it was the batting that was the real problem for team India.

 Lone ranger

For the second consecutive time, a Yuvraj Singh century in Hyderabad went in vain. In November 2005, Yuvraj had scored 103 but the team went down to South Africa by five wickets.

Yesterday, the left-hander was the only hope amidst crumbling wickets, to take India to the target of 291, posted by Australia after winning the toss and electing to bat. But it was the lack of good partnerships early on that left Dhoni and his men in a lurch. Opener Gautam Gambhir disappointed yet again when he was caught in front of the stumps by Brett Lee after scoring just six runs.

 Terrible start

Robin Uthappa did not disturb the scoreboard and then former captain Rahul Dravid edged one to Matthew Hayden in the slips. The score was 13 for the loss of three wickets.

Enter Yuvraj Singh, who along with Sachin Tendulkar knitted a 93-run stand to give some hope before the 34-year-old opener gave himself too much room to play the cut shot, but ended up allowing a Brad Hogg delivery to clean him up.

Dhoni then added another 65 runs for the fifth wicket along with his deputy Yuvraj, but fell after he edged a Lee delivery to Adam Gilchrist. The remaining five wickets accounted for just 70-odd runs. Australia are now comfortably 2-0 up in the series.

“Obviously till the time Yuvi and I were there on the field, we thought that we had a chance,” Dhoni admitted later and so did Ponting. “Obviously our batting disappointed but then since cricket is a team game I can’t really blame any one department. We all are responsible alike,” Dhoni added.

 Symonds on fire

Earlier, in the Australian innings, Hayden scored a 70-ball 60 before handing over the reigns of the Australian innings to the eventual man-of-the-match Symonds and Bangalore centurion Michael Clarke (59).

Symonds powered the world champions to a commanding position with a 67-ball 89, which also included five hits to the ropes and another five beyond that.

Dhoni, however, was satisfied with his bowlers. “I had earlier said that our bowling in the death overs is a problem. But today we improved a lot.

In the last five overs we gave some 30 runs which was a big improvement,” the wicket-keeper said.

“The bowlers did a decent job considering they restricted Australia to 290 when in the earlier matches they had scored more than 300. Also part-timers like Yuvi and Sachin did a great job with the ball.”

Now all the attention veers to Vadodra and with it the hopes of a revival.

 http://www.mumbaimirror.com/net/mmpaper.aspx?page=article&sectid=59&contentid=2007100620071006032007109d2a76482

[inoc]

Interesting moves -

Brave move to finally "drop" one of the Ms at least. GG can be no worse than SG anyways.

Why Haddin was dropped and not Hodge is quite strange. maybe AUssies want to give India some chance

What are drinking recently . now a days you are failing to get out of hang over

In the 9 ODIs that GG and SG have played together in 2007

=========================
  Gambhir                Ganguly
=========================
Runs     Balls       Runs        Balls
--------------------------------
69        75           98         110             Nagpur vs. WI 1st ODI
2          11           13          25             Cuttack  vs. WI 2nd ODI
80        107          73          99             Belfast vs. Ireland
0           7            13          22             Belfast vs. SA 1st ODI
5          11           18          24             Belfast vs. SA 3rd ODI
3          14            2            6             Southampton vs. Eng 1st ODI
51         66          59          79             Leeds vs. Eng 5th ODI
47         57          53          60             Oval vs. Eng 6th ODI
12         20          15          22             Lords vs. Eng 7th ODI

Whenever SG failed, GG also failed. Whenever SG succeeded, GG also succeeded.

This is quite interesting right? We want to replace SG, who is clearly is not the same as the player he was in the early 2000s, because his game does not quite match up to the requirements. But, we are replacing him by someone who is having trouble matching his current form.

This is the crux of the problem. I don't think SG's present game is suitable for ODI ... he can kind of play the anchor, but the role is placed on him because he can't play a different role, it is not that he can blaze his sixes like before anymore, so  if he is around for 25 overs, he will not change his style and bash the bowlers. Therefore he is useful for ODI in places like Eng, where he can chip in with some useful overs, or places where you can forget about trying to hit the bowlers (like a 200-250 pitch), not otherwise. But it is imperative that he be replaced by someone who actually has these qualities. If you feel GG has these qualities, fair enough (I am open to the possibility in spite of the problems) ... but how many chances must he be given, before we give that place to a Rohit Sharma or a Badrinath ot a Tewari or a Raina?

This side-by-side comparison isn't very useful. Who cares if they played together or not--the comparison should be based on # of matches played, not # of matches played together.

dextrous

i agree with you because the above numbers from JFK can result in an erroneous interpretation at first glance.


JFK

This is only a part of the story.

Even then, from the numbers you have posted

GG averages 29.88 @ 73.09
SG  averages 38.22 @ 76.95

As I said this is only part of the story.


GG has played for India in four distinct phases

Phase 1 : 2003

5 matches against BAN – avg 22.6 – dropped

Phase 2 : 2005/06

Recalled (SL) -135 runs in two innings including a hundred.

He then played in 9 out of the next 16 games and was dropped again (due to an obvious flaw discussed here in this DG as well as elsewhere)
He averaged 18.33 during these matches.

Phase 3:
Recalled again (WI) as a trial for WC. 3 matches avg 23.66, RU discovered hence didnt make it to the WC.

Phase 4: post world cup

Played in 13 of the last 17 matches, that India has played.
Nine matches versus non minnows.

Average 16.88
SR 64.50.

If you want to try him out for a few more matches specially on account of his good show in the T20 WC, fair enough, i dont have any problems with that.

if some people here and me included are basing our conclusions on the above it should also be fair as this is certainly not based on 1 or 2 matches as you suggested earlier.

[kban1]

When Ponting was given a miss by the media

Mikhil Bhat
 
It was on Thursday that the Australian captain Ricky Ponting had given sermons of behaviour and sportsmanship on a cricket field.

Perhaps, he just needed to speak to his own media manager Philip Pope first and teach him a lesson or two on behaviour.

First, on Thursday, Pope organized a press conference around the same time the Indians did so but the venue was around one and a half hours away from the stadium which resulted in the major part of the Indian media not covering the Australians.

Then came the statement that he was surprised at empty hall at the team hotel since the world’s best batsman (read Ricky Ponting) was there waiting. If his pompousness was evident then, what followed yesterday only left the Indian media flabbergasted.

At the traditional, post-match press conference, Pope forced Ponting and man-of-the-match Andrew Symonds to walkout of the hall since the Australian media were not present. He even vented his anger at the Indian media co-ordinator for not making sure that the Australian media was present.

What say, Mr Ponting!

Chucked

The latest anthem of Indian sports, Chak de India, took a backseat yesterday in the Hyderabad stadium. It was the trailer of a Telugu film Atithi which kept beaming on the giant screen much to the joy of the spectators every time an over ended or a wicket fell. During the lunch break, it kept playing again and again.

The film stars Telugu superstar Mahesh ‘Prince’ Babu, who is also the husband of bollywood actress Namrata Shirodkar, in the lead opposite Amrita Rao. The trailer was not the only filmi flavour during the match. Also present at the stadium was actor Venkatesh and it just took waving hand on the giant screen to send the crowds into a tizzy.

Still some way to go

While it may consider itself to be a state-of-the-art stadium, the truth about the Rajiv *hi International stadium has way too many flaws to even claim so just yet. In the last week of September, ICC observer Steve Bernard had visited Hyderabad and the Hyderabad Cricket Association authorities had expressed satisfaction over the possibility of the stadium being awarded a Test status.

But with incomplete construction, which also means inadequate toilet facilities, irregular electric supply, absence of the airconditioning systems wherever necessary and improper and incomplete scoreboard, one really wonders whether the stadium is ready for a Test status.

 http://www.mumbaimirror.com/net/mmpaper.aspx?page=article&sectid=59&contentid=200710062007100603195731cdb8c77b&pageno=1

[WicketView]

Interesting moves -

Brave move to finally "drop" one of the Ms at least. GG can be no worse than SG anyways.

Why Haddin was dropped and not Hodge is quite strange. maybe AUssies want to give India some chance

What are drinking recently . now a days you are failing to get out of hang over

In the 9 ODIs that GG and SG have played together in 2007

=========================
  Gambhir                Ganguly
=========================
Runs     Balls       Runs        Balls
--------------------------------
69        75           98         110             Nagpur vs. WI 1st ODI
2          11           13          25             Cuttack  vs. WI 2nd ODI
80        107          73          99             Belfast vs. Ireland
0           7            13          22             Belfast vs. SA 1st ODI
5          11           18          24             Belfast vs. SA 3rd ODI
3          14            2            6             Southampton vs. Eng 1st ODI
51         66          59          79             Leeds vs. Eng 5th ODI
47         57          53          60             Oval vs. Eng 6th ODI
12         20          15          22             Lords vs. Eng 7th ODI

Whenever SG failed, GG also failed. Whenever SG succeeded, GG also succeeded.

This is quite interesting right? We want to replace SG, who is clearly is not the same as the player he was in the early 2000s, because his game does not quite match up to the requirements. But, we are replacing him by someone who is having trouble matching his current form.

This is the crux of the problem. I don't think SG's present game is suitable for ODI ... he can kind of play the anchor, but the role is placed on him because he can't play a different role, it is not that he can blaze his sixes like before anymore, so  if he is around for 25 overs, he will not change his style and bash the bowlers. Therefore he is useful for ODI in places like Eng, where he can chip in with some useful overs, or places where you can forget about trying to hit the bowlers (like a 200-250 pitch), not otherwise. But it is imperative that he be replaced by someone who actually has these qualities. If you feel GG has these qualities, fair enough (I am open to the possibility in spite of the problems) ... but how many chances must he be given, before we give that place to a Rohit Sharma or a Badrinath ot a Tewari or a Raina?

This side-by-side comparison isn't very useful. Who cares if they played together or not--the comparison should be based on # of matches played, not # of matches played together.

dextrous

i agree with you because the above numbers from JFK can result in an erroneous interpretation at first glance.


JFK

This is only a part of the story.

Even then, from the numbers you have posted

GG averages 29.88 @ 73.09
SG  averages 38.22 @ 76.95

As I said this is only part of the story.


GG has played for India in four distinct phases

Phase 1 : 2003

5 matches against BAN – avg 22.6 – dropped

Phase 2 : 2005/06

Recalled (SL) -135 runs in two innings including a hundred.

He then played in 9 out of the next 16 games and was dropped again (due to an obvious flaw discussed here in this DG as well as elsewhere)
He averaged 18.33 during these matches.

Phase 3:
Recalled again (WI) as a trial for WC. 3 matches avg 23.66, RU discovered hence didnt make it to the WC.

Phase 4: post world cup

Played in 13 of the last 17 matches, that India has played.
Nine matches versus non minnows.

Average 16.88
SR 64.50.

If you want to try him out for a few more matches specially on account of his good show in the T20 WC, fair enough, i dont have any problems with that.

if some people here and me included are basing our conclusions on the above it should also be fair as this is certainly not based on 1 or 2 matches as you suggested earlier.

Dex and Inoc,

While, I agree with you two on the possibility of erroneous interpretation from this list alone, and that other numbers must be taken into account; this list does serve a useful purpose ... At some level it standardizes the scores of the player under discussion. Essentially, a player would be expected to score more against weaker bowling attacks or batting wickets. And normal averages don't weight these properly ... this is a way (without claiming that this is the best way) of doing just that. Perhaps, an even better way of doing this to compare say GG and SG (as far as averages are concerned) , would be to divide their scores by Dravid's (since RD has played almost all the matches we are talking about) in each match that the player has played in, and compare the averages of these numbers. This would get a fair number of matches, model the difference in pitches and bowling attacks to a first approximation. The flaws of such a method would be the comparison with RD, because RD may come in in different situations, may or may not get out (say India wins, or the overs get completed), or for that matter is not required to come out to bat!

 However, the comparison provided by JFK is startling since by coincidence, GG has never done much better than SG.

[kban1]

Dex and Kban

wv:

I think you meant to address the post to Dex and Inoc.

[WicketView]

Dex and Kban

wv:

I think you meant to address the post to Dex and Inoc.

Of course .... sorry. Modified post to reflect this.

[broadbat]

                    A Hiding in Hyderabad

The Salar Jung museum in the city of the Charminar’s houses some of the best jewelry of erstwhile royalty that are on public display in India. Visitors are always in awe while going through the collection. Yesterday at Uppal however there was only a lone Indian diamond on display that found, that even its shine was being eclipsed by an equally awe inspiring radiance emanating from a near dozen Aussie gems.
If India displayed flawless team work during the T20 WC (by the way did we really win that thing) the Roo’s have been hopping in unison all over India so far in this series and all but taken the Future Cup from what we hoped were the future of cricket in India.
Ponting won the toss and as usual no wishy washy decisions from him. Bat first-period.
There was nothing in the Aussie batting to suggest that they were trying extra hard to pile on any mammoth score, just the usual clinical efficiency that has become a hallmark of their game. In the end to be frank, India denied them a score in excess of three hundred which they seem poised to get and whether it was due to good bowling or poor finishing by them, is debatable.
If India thought they had a foot in the door when they began their innings, they were left grimacing in pain as the Aussies slammed the door shut with 3 early wickets.
Just so that it would not seem that only the new kids were failing, Dravid kept them company with an extremely poor shot.
Tendulkar, who had redeemed himself to a certain extent in England by scoring big in a huge run chase, proved that like Haley’s comet it will be a rare sighting to see him do it again. He is at that stage in his career when it seems that it does not need a McGrath to get him out, any Hogg will do.
Dhoni’s innings was all too brief and the rest briefer still. In between all this, Yuvarj continued batting like he could do it own, but then this is a team game remember?
India is now down the hole and how deep it is I do not know. If there is space we will fall further, however if we are already at the bottom then we may find that we can only climb out, unless the Kangaroo’s decide to bury us altogether.

[LosingNow]

 HYDERABAD, October 5:  After the Twenty20 World Cup triumph, the Men in Blue have been in much demand.

Their off-field engagements seem to have taken precedence over cricket. Is this affecting their game? It is a question that the players, who undoubtedly would deny it, need to look into seriously. A look at their activities during their two-and-a-half day sojourn in the city would throw some light on the issue.

The Indian and the Australian teams landed in the city at about 3 pm on Wednesday. While some of the Australians, including skipper Ricky Ponting, rushed to the stadium straight from the airport for a fitness session, six Indian players spent about an hour at a promotional event.

Two hours later, 10 members of the World Cup-winning squad attended a felicitation. During that period, Sachin Tendulkar attended two programmes. At 9 pm, the Indian team was at a dinner hosted by a state Cabinet minister. An hour later, six of them slipped into a pub - Ahala - and left only at about 2 am.

On Thursday, the Indians had rigorous practice in the morning. Then, at about 2 pm, they were busy preparing a cake. Leading the boys was skipper MS Dhoni, who mixed vodka in the cake-mixing ceremony at the team hotel.

In the evening, former skipper Rahul Dravid attended a promotional event along with three other cricketers. Another upcoming cricketer found time to visit a private television channel’s office.

In the night, the boys were back on the dance floor at Ahala. However, they disappointed the party folks by refusing to dance with the crowd. An organiser said that the presence of the media personnel in the pub prevented them from shaking a leg with their fans.

Last heard, Tendulkar was supposed to attend a programme organised by a music centre at 8 pm on Friday.

On the other hand, Ponting was the only Australian player to attend a promotional event, and that too on Wednesday.

[dhruvdeepak]

HYDERABAD, October 5:  After the Twenty20 World Cup triumph, the Men in Blue have been in much demand.

Their off-field engagements seem to have taken precedence over cricket. Is this affecting their game? It is a question that the players, who undoubtedly would deny it, need to look into seriously. A look at their activities during their two-and-a-half day sojourn in the city would throw some light on the issue.

The Indian and the Australian teams landed in the city at about 3 pm on Wednesday. While some of the Australians, including skipper Ricky Ponting, rushed to the stadium straight from the airport for a fitness session, six Indian players spent about an hour at a promotional event.

Two hours later, 10 members of the World Cup-winning squad attended a felicitation. During that period, Sachin Tendulkar attended two programmes. At 9 pm, the Indian team was at a dinner hosted by a state Cabinet minister. An hour later, six of them slipped into a pub - Ahala - and left only at about 2 am.

On Thursday, the Indians had rigorous practice in the morning. Then, at about 2 pm, they were busy preparing a cake. Leading the boys was skipper MS Dhoni, who mixed vodka in the cake-mixing ceremony at the team hotel.

In the evening, former skipper Rahul Dravid attended a promotional event along with three other cricketers. Another upcoming cricketer found time to visit a private television channel’s office.

In the night, the boys were back on the dance floor at Ahala. However, they disappointed the party folks by refusing to dance with the crowd. An organiser said that the presence of the media personnel in the pub prevented them from shaking a leg with their fans.

Last heard, Tendulkar was supposed to attend a programme organised by a music centre at 8 pm on Friday.

On the other hand, Ponting was the only Australian player to attend a promotional event, and that too on Wednesday.

hhehe forget about being in demand when winning. i was there during the 50 over cup, and it was a similar scene there, away from home. lunch at mukesh's, dinner and function at laxmi mittal's, various lunch and dinners with other people, a trip to the beach, dhoni went to buy a harley, sg went to the mall....and this was all after the loss to BD.

[justforkix]

But Pip, I would still take that 70(100) for today's match!

nah, 0 in 1 ball is infinitely better than 70(100) - don't you know? the DBP commandment dictates that!

of course. A 70(100) from SG would have been as useless in today's match as SRT's 43(71).....

Together, they would have been more than useful. They would probably have helped us win this match.

That may mean rest of the team needs to score 178 in 21.3 overs

This is argument merely for the sake of it. You are implying that a SG-SRT partnership would have yielded 113 runs in 171 balls. Has such a thing ever occurred in that partnership? Had the two played in tandem, either Sachin's or Ganguly's SR would have been much better, because one would have played much more freely knowing other is playing the anchor. SRT's 43 in 71 happened because on the other side Gambhir and Uthappa fell cheaply, thrusting the salvaging role on to Sachin.

I obviously did not mean it as-is. Anyways, my school of thought is quite different. A 70 S/R is IMO quite useless when chasing a ~300 score. 43(71) and 70(100) are equally useless if the batsman does not carry on till the end and makes up for the poor S/R. A 70 S/R is great on difficult pitches while chasing 250- scores.

[justforkix]

This is quite interesting right? We want to replace SG, who is clearly is not the same as the player he was in the early 2000s, because his game does not quite match up to the requirements. But, we are replacing him by someone who is having trouble matching his current form.

This is the crux of the problem. I don't think SG's present game is suitable for ODI ... he can kind of play the anchor, but the role is placed on him because he can't play a different role, it is not that he can blaze his sixes like before anymore, so  if he is around for 25 overs, he will not change his style and bash the bowlers. Therefore he is useful for ODI in places like Eng, where he can chip in with some useful overs, or places where you can forget about trying to hit the bowlers (like a 200-250 pitch), not otherwise. But it is imperative that he be replaced by someone who actually has these qualities. If you feel GG has these qualities, fair enough (I am open to the possibility in spite of the problems) ... but how many chances must he be given, before we give that place to a Rohit Sharma or a Badrinath ot a Tewari or a Raina?

No. I was of the opinion that GG was useless before 20-20, but some of his good innings in the 20-20 has caused me to rethink and maybe reevaluvate after a continous run. He has now got 5 ODIs on the trot - good in 2, failed in 3. I would give GG the rest of the 9 ODIs (4-Aus and 5-Pak) and decide one way or the other for the last time.

[justforkix]

This side-by-side comparison isn't very useful. Who cares if they played together or not--the comparison should be based on # of matches played, not # of matches played together.

i agree with you because the above numbers from JFK can result in an erroneous interpretation at first glance.

JFK

This is only a part of the story.

Even then, from the numbers you have posted

GG averages 29.88 @ 73.09
SG  averages 38.22 @ 76.95

Dex and Inoc:

I was only defending my statement : "GG can be no worse than SG anyways". Taking the games they played together evens out opponent, venue (home/away) and conditions (mostly). So, I do not see anything wrong in doing that. In the games they played together, GG either opened or batted at #3. The only outlier here is for the 5th and 6th ODI in Eng, SG and GG would not have had the same conditions, since SG and SRT had a 100+ stand and GG came in at #3. And this was my conclusion: "Whenever SG failed, GG also failed. Whenever SG succeeded, GG also succeeded.". I did not think taking an average over 7-8 games made sense and also did not think it was releant to the defense of my initial statement and my conclusion.

GG has played for India in four distinct phases

Phase 1 : 2003

5 matches against BAN – avg 22.6 – dropped

Phase 2 : 2005/06

Recalled (SL) -135 runs in two innings including a hundred.

He then played in 9 out of the next 16 games and was dropped again (due to an obvious flaw discussed here in this DG as well as elsewhere)
He averaged 18.33 during these matches.

Phase 3:
Recalled again (WI) as a trial for WC. 3 matches avg 23.66, RU discovered hence didnt make it to the WC.

Phase 4: post world cup

Played in 13 of the last 17 matches, that India has played.
Nine matches versus non minnows.

Average 16.88
SR 64.50.

If you want to try him out for a few more matches specially on account of his good show in the T20 WC, fair enough, i dont have any problems with that.

Yes. that is my thought. I am still of the opinion that he is useless and already aware of his stats in his previous stints in the Indian ODI squad, but would be happy if he proves me wrong

if some people here and me included are basing our conclusions on the above it should also be fair as this is certainly not based on 1 or 2 matches as you suggested earlier.

No. that post of mine was for RU and RS and not meant for GG.

However, the comparison provided by JFK is startling since by coincidence, GG has never done much better than SG.

HEHE. that is not startling to me. I think both are useless in different ways