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[pipsqueak]

hindi films in general have improved dramatically in the last 5 years ...

Do you think the Hindi movies have improved, generally speaking? Yes, perhaps in terms of technical finesse, cinematography, editing etc. However the contents remain poor in most of them. Additionally, the vulgarity, the cheapness is absolutely revolting. We have recently installed Sky and with it get a quite a few Indian channels. I have been watching some promos of a new film called Babyy. Earlier had the misfortune of watching promos of Partner and Ramgopal Verma ki ---- mein Aag. All absolutely disgusting.

Similarly, we have had our first sampling of the Hindi serials. If we have people watching such trash and making stars out of people playing in them, God help us.

I will agree with gourav that quality has improved ..not dramatically...and as kban said the great majority of movies is still trash.
A few good movies from last few years (and i am not just talking the multiplex genre - Iqbal, Dor, etc) ... Swades, Paheli, Rang De Basanti, Omkara, Lage Raho Munnabhai ..
--
BTW JFK, I hang out with quite a few tamilians in real-life .. they all understand the "sivaji" hype due to fan craze etc..but according to them the movie was total garbage (they were unanimous in that opinion, I have not seen it to form any judgement).

'sivaji' is pure unadulterated crap - but rajnikanth movies aren't seen for the story/logic/acting. for instance, he longs for a girl who is soaked in "tamil culture" and immediately the movie breaks into a song where skimpily clad women are shaking their various assets along with men with huge tummies with 'boss'(or smthing else, i forget) painted on them!

ones goes to look at him do a few stunts, listen to a few punchlines, watch him gyrate with a few nubile lasses(this one evn had a blond rajni) and come out feeling good about it all. similar to a james bond movie experience.

of course, all this is accompanied some overt moral messages. i had a tough time keeping a straight face when my cousin was admiring the director(forget his name) for always tackling a "social issue" in his movies. i viewed the whole movie as slapstick.

[dextrous]

10+ good movies every year? really?

I was being generous

well technically, you only said "990 of which are pure unadulterated trash", which does not mean that the rest of the 10 are good 

Exactly -- the other 10 run the range of poor to good. And I was generous with that estimate 

my estimate would be 1 tolerable movie once every 10 years.

as opposed to tamil cinema which brings out 1 every 25 years 

[pipsqueak]

10+ good movies every year? really?

I was being generous

well technically, you only said "990 of which are pure unadulterated trash", which does not mean that the rest of the 10 are good 

Exactly -- the other 10 run the range of poor to good. And I was generous with that estimate 

my estimate would be 1 tolerable movie once every 10 years.

as opposed to tamil cinema which brings out 1 every 25 years 

oh, i clubbed tamil/hindi all together - the mainstream indian cinema! tamil movies are mostly UNBEARABLE esp. since i understand all that is being said as well unlike a hindi movie where many a cheesy line may escape me.

[Jai]

And I did compare SG with SRK only on one count - attitude and I stand by it. You may have a very low opinion of SRK and that's alright, but a nobody from Delhi with no filmi background can't rule the industry for over a decade just by fluke or pumped by trade media as you have put it. It's the public that decide the fate of a star, or else every star-puttar will be a star too. Similarly, Akki may be 'wooden' according to you, but probably a very fine piece of wood.     The bottomline is one has to have the dum to stick around for so song.

No, it does not take much dum at all -- disagree completely.

As long as we have audiences (and no, not the uneducated / poor who are looking for paisa wasool, but the educated middle classes who know quite well the difference between good and bad actors/ movies) who encourage such crap, these actors / directors /producers have no reason to change because of all this positive reinforcement to crap that they receive.

In such an atmosphere, it takes dum to go away from the beaten path like a handful of actors have done, not to stick to the crap that gets accepted by an ever forgiving, non discerning audience who selectively and consistently choose to lower the standards.

I'll still say that one needs to have something in him/her to click with the public in order to survive for so long. When one or two non-actors like SRK or Akki does that and others fail, then there has to be something in them that make them click with the masses. While I may not enjoy a film like 'Hum Aap Ke Hain Kaun?' or 'Gadar - Ek Prem Katha', but I can certainly understand why these films clicked with the masses. The good thing is now we also have an audience who are appreciating other kind of films - off-beat films, hat ke films.

I completely agree with you that it takes dum to go away from the beaten path and try something different. That's what I like about Mithunda because he always did that whenever he got an opportunity. The non-Bengali audience may not realize this although a film like 'Swami Vivekanand' was made in Hindi, but you know what I am talking about. And this is exactly where I've got issues with AB. In the 70s and 80s when AB was at the top of his career, he was the only actor all the big producers were running after, he had writers like Salim-Jaaved writing scripts keeping ONLY him in mind. No other actor had that kind of luxary. And yet AB came up with films like 'Mard', 'Coolie', 'Nastik', 'Jaadugar', 'Pukar', 'Akeyla', 'Shahenshah' etc. Most of his better films were done before that period. Not only he never attempted an off-beat film (the closest he came to was 'Main Azaad Hoon'), he started acting in bad bad bad commercial films. And mind you all these were before ABCL going bankcrupt. So he can't even give excuses like he had to work to pay off his debts.

[LosingNow]

And yet AB came up with films like 'Mard', 'Coolie', 'Nastik', 'Jaadugar', 'Pukar', 'Akeyla', 'Shahenshah' etc.

You missed out "Ajooba". (this one stunk so bad, you literally had to hold your nose )

[Jai]

And yet AB came up with films like 'Mard', 'Coolie', 'Nastik', 'Jaadugar', 'Pukar', 'Akeyla', 'Shahenshah' etc.

You missed out "Ajooba". (this one stunk so bad, you literally had to hold your nose )

Do you remember who directed it? Shashi Kapoor. 

[LosingNow]

I will agree with gourav that quality has improved ..not dramatically...and as kban said the great majority of movies is still trash.
A few good movies from last few years (and i am not just talking the multiplex genre - Iqbal, Dor, etc) ... Swades, Paheli, Rang De Basanti, Omkara, Lage Raho Munnabhai ..
--

Improved w.r.t. what is the question ?!? relative to 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s...... Movies in 50s-60s-70s were surely of much higher quality. There are only handful of good movies like the ones you have listed above.

BTW JFK, I hang out with quite a few tamilians in real-life .. they all understand the "sivaji" hype due to fan craze etc..but according to them the movie was total garbage (they were unanimous in that opinion, I have not seen it to form any judgement).

Did they watch it in a big-screen/theater and form this opinion ?!? I think it was good, but nowhere near the classics he dished out in 80s/90s.

I think compared to the drivel that was served in 80s. I agree, some of the movies in 50-60-70s had great content. I think what is different about these movies is that they are trying NEW stuff (even beyond the multiplex stuff that Jai is talking about).. and the improved technical aspects of movie-making is adding to the story-telling/character development. 

After all, what is a good movie.. a good story with deep characters told with proper use of cinematic tools - camera, angles, music, actors, dialog, editing etc (apologies to CLR for my gross simplification!).
--

I think some saw it in theaters and some at home.

As pip said, Rajnikanth movies are not about story, characters, logic etc.. they appear to be about the "theater-going" experience...and I can relate to it from my teen years - when I stood in line to watch Amitabh's Namak Halal, Mukaddar ka sikandar etc. on first day - but good theater experience != good movie.

[LosingNow]

And yet AB came up with films like 'Mard', 'Coolie', 'Nastik', 'Jaadugar', 'Pukar', 'Akeyla', 'Shahenshah' etc.

You missed out "Ajooba". (this one stunk so bad, you literally had to hold your nose )

Do you remember who directed it? Shashi Kapoor. 

Yep.. the first Amitabh movie.. that I walked out of within 30 minutes.

[dextrous]

And yet AB came up with films like 'Mard', 'Coolie', 'Nastik', 'Jaadugar', 'Pukar', 'Akeyla', 'Shahenshah' etc.

You missed out "Ajooba". (this one stunk so bad, you literally had to hold your nose )

Do you remember who directed it? Shashi Kapoor. 

Yep.. the first Amitabh movie.. that I walked out of within 30 minutes.

is that the zorro movie? i rather liked it when i was a kid...but it's been a while

[justforkix]

I think some saw it in theaters and some at home.

As pip said, Rajnikanth movies are not about story, characters, logic etc.. they appear to be about the "theater-going" experience...and I can relate to it from my teen years - when I stood in line to watch Amitabh's Namak Halal, Mukaddar ka sikandar etc. on first day - but good theater experience != good movie.

No, what I meant was watching a poor quality print at home may make a good movie not-so-good.

It was a typical Rajini movie. So, if they were Rajini fans, I don't see any reason why they would think it is garbage. And if they are not Rajini fans, then I'm not surprised that they think it is garbage

Rajini movies - If you are his fan, you'll love it, if you're not, then you'll hate it