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[broadbat]

5 bowlers as suggested by JFK for the 1st itself. Play RS? Drop AA and GC. What about RU? Or should we go with the same XI and treat it as a one off thing? Questions, questions,questions.....

[broadbat]

How about SG and KKD at the top followed by SRT, MSD,YS and then RD?

[gouravk]

Not making a boneheaded decision at the toss, for one.

Including Ramesh Powar in the side.

[justforkix]

Powar has to play. He has very good flight and will surely trouble the England batters. Can drop PC or AA depending on the pitch. Tha way our batters batted, it is unlikely that we will play 5 bowlers this series  .

Looking at the ground yesterday, I was quite surprised that RU did not play becase the straight boundaries were much shorter than the square ones. RU hits the ball straight very well and with good power, while GG plays well square of the wicket.

[justforkix]

5 bowlers as suggested by JFK for the 1st itself. Play RS? Drop AA and GC. What about RU? Or should we go with the same XI and treat it as a one off thing? Questions, questions,questions.....

GC was dropped 4 months back 

[keep-it-cool]

Ideally, play five bowlers. But, it is not going to happen.

Pick Powar .. drop Chawla or Agarkar, depending on the wicket. Chawla may be the one to get the axe because we have other spin options anyway.

Cant see much that can be changed with the batting .. GG v/s RU - I dont know .. not sure it will make much of a difference. Would help if people look before they run.

[gouravk]

No dont have to play 5 bowlers. 4 bowlers who have been picked have got to do their job. Pick RP in place of PC. I believe PC has a big future but hes not quite there yet.

GG has been the most well-proven failure in modern cricket and yet we continue to persist with him. Ridiculous. I would give RS a chance. Or RU.

[justforkix]

BTW, nothing much to worry, as RD clearly said that we didn't play cricket yesterday 

[keep-it-cool]

BTW, nothing much to worry, as RD clearly said that we didn't play cricket yesterday 

but, he didnt say when we are going to start either

[justforkix]

Cant see much that can be changed with the batting .. GG v/s RU - I dont know .. not sure it will make much of a difference. Would help if people look before they run.

Jon Agnew on this in BBC:

The last thing you want when chasing a big score is to lose an early wicket, and Sourav Ganguly had a brainstorm when he set off for a second run in the only the third over.

 

[arjun]

I think the same set of players should do for the second. But RP for PC may be thought of.

[keep-it-cool]

Cant see much that can be changed with the batting .. GG v/s RU - I dont know .. not sure it will make much of a difference. Would help if people look before they run.

Jon Agnew on this in BBC:

The last thing you want when chasing a big score is to lose an early wicket, and Sourav Ganguly had a brainstorm when he set off for a second run in the only the third over.

 

[pipsqueak]

5 bowlers as suggested by JFK for the 1st itself. Play RS? Drop AA and GC. What about RU? Or should we go with the same XI and treat it as a one off thing? Questions, questions,questions.....

go with the same XI but send Yuv/KKD higher up if required. powerplays should be used to the maximum. no nudge and poke players then. make KKD and SG practise their running and calling 

[pipsqueak]

Cant see much that can be changed with the batting .. GG v/s RU - I dont know .. not sure it will make much of a difference. Would help if people look before they run.

Jon Agnew on this in BBC:

The last thing you want when chasing a big score is to lose an early wicket, and Sourav Ganguly had a brainstorm when he set off for a second run in the only the third over.

 

brainstorm? i thought it was more a brainarrest.

anyway, i think blue moons are not rare any more - what are the chances that SG would desperately run for the second AND monty turns jonty at the same moment?

[feverpitch]

Not making a boneheaded decision at the toss, for one.

Request annulled!

[cricinfo]

Cant see much that can be changed with the batting .. GG v/s RU - I dont know .. not sure it will make much of a difference. Would help if people look before they run.

Jon Agnew on this in BBC:

The last thing you want when chasing a big score is to lose an early wicket, and Sourav Ganguly had a brainstorm when he set off for a second run in the only the third over.

 

brainstorm? i thought it was more a brainarrest.

anyway, i think blue moons are not rare any more - what are the chances that SG would desperately run for the second AND monty turns jonty at the same moment?

i think he was just desparate to get to the other end and not face those scary deliveries 

[OldPal]

Step 1: Select the team as mentioned in the same order of batting -
Step2: Go out and perform. Dont lose the match in 25 overs if you have wikcets left.
With 4 wickets down and the team having 7 batsman ..game seem to be lost in minds of indian players once we lost 4 wicket.. Huh.. negative approach to game.
 SRT,Dravid and dhoni batted in a way to ensure we don't win. It just took couple of players from Eng to score the mamoth total.
I dont know what is the difference in losing a match with 200 runs or losing it with 20 runs( If you decide you have to lose).

1.   Dinesh Karthik,
2.   Sourav Ganguly,
3.   Rahul Dravid (flexible position),
4.   Sachin Tendulkar,
5.   Yuvraj Singh,
6.   Mahendra Singh Dhoni,
7.   Rohit Sharma,
8.   Ramesh Powar,
9.   Zaheer Khan,
10.   RP Singh,
11.   Munaf Patel or Ajit Agarkar.

[keep-it-cool]

SRT at 4?? But isnt that what raised tempers all around and sent SRT into a sulk when GC tried it some time back?

[schumi]

IMO, Karthick is batting at the wrong position. He is good at both attack and defense, quick between the wickets and more importantly in very good form. He has played the new ball consistently enough and so can bat higher up the order, even higher than RD, YS and Dhoni.  RD can drop down to 5 or even 6.

SRT
KKD
SG
YS
MSD
RD
RSharma
RPo
PC (MP/AA)
ZAK
RPS

[schumi]

SRT at 4?? But isnt that what raised tempers all around and sent SRT into a sulk when GC tried it some time back?

Agree. He does want only to open and let him play there till he can win matches and move out when he is not able to do so.

[WicketView]

4 bowlers ... with RP instead of PC. can't drop AA I think for lack of replacements. I would prefer RU instead of GG for the Eng tour, though GG may be a better bet in Aus. Unless a wicket falls very quickly, and it is felt that there is not much seam /swing in which case we may want to send in MSD/RU at one down; send in KKD at one down. YS 2 down. Decide on the rest RU/MSD/RD according to needs. 

[Prafulla]

4 bowlers ... with RP instead of PC. can't drop AA I think for lack of replacements. I would prefer RU instead of GG for the Eng tour, though GG may be a better bet in Aus. Unless a wicket falls very quickly, and it is felt that there is not much seam /swing in which case we may want to send in MSD/RU at one down; send in KKD at one down. YS 2 down. Decide on the rest RU/MSD/RD according to needs. 

Only one change. RU in place of GG.

SRT may not like to bat at 4/5..so let SRT and SG open. No 4 RD - if we loose quick wickets, else YRS.

[LosingNow]

SRT may not like to bat at 4/5..so let SRT and SG open.

Just reminds me of the forward in Chak De .. who refuses to play center half at the urging of the coach

[kban1]

SRT
SG
KKD (will not change this position  -- I think we erred in sending an in form batsman so low down the order)
YS
RD
GG
MSD
RPo
MP/AA
ZAK
RPS

[inoc]

SRT
SG
KKD (will not change this position  -- I think we erred in sending an in form batsman so low down the order)
YS
RD
GG
MSD
RPo
MP/AA
ZAK
RPS

kban

agree that we made a mistake regarding KKD.

however i have two concerns with the line up.

GG at no 7 is a waste. i would try RS. i know that GG was in form during the tour matches and this is somewhat harsh but the fact that he has failed time and again and the fact that we are pushing him to number 7 (ineffective place for him IMO) warrants a chance for RS. maybe we will do that later on in the series - who knows.

if dropping GG is harsh dropping PC is harsher. i have always had this opinion that bowlers, other than getting a raw deal with respect to the game itself also get a raw deal from the public/selectors. only a match ago we were praising him in ireland and one loss and a poor performance and out he goes. unfair IMO.

i would get RS for GG and if by some miracle/foolishness decide to go for two spinners will have RP for GG.

KKD @ three is a must. we may however have to wait for the RD brainfreeze to thaw first.

[Jai]

I agree with Inoc. GG at #7 is a complete waste. If he plays, it has to be in top 3. I will play both Pawar and Chawla because both are decent bats, especially PC and the other two reserves RU and RS are unlikely to click as a batsman in a big way considering they are new to these conditions. At least GG has got used to the conditions by now. So rather than playing RU or RS, I'll play both the spinners. Depends on the pitch too. In the last match, all the spinners failed. Since it's a 7 match series, we can try out all the possible combinations.

[schumi]

Reason for my choosing KKD over SG to open is the SG coming down the order enables him to take on Monty who will come into bowl mostly after the 2nd / 3rd power plays. This will ensure that we keep the momentum after the powerplays as well. I would also like to play PC as much as possible even at the expense of the third seam bowler.

[inoc]

I agree with Inoc. GG at #7 is a complete waste. If he plays, it has to be in top 3. I will play both Pawar and Chawla because both are decent bats, especially PC and the other two reserves RU and RS are unlikely to click as a batsman in a big way considering they are new to these conditions. At least GG has got used to the conditions by now. So rather than playing RU or RS, I'll play both the spinners. Depends on the pitch too. In the last match, all the spinners failed. Since it's a 7 match series, we can try out all the possible combinations.

jai

Although we agree on the GG issue I don’t agree with the rest of your post.

Let me elaborate.

I said in my post that it will be a miracle if we decide to play five bowlers. It was based of the fact that we recently capitulated, batting wise, and it will be a bold captain who will go into the next match with fewer batsmen. On recent evidence we can negate that.

Again, I called it a miracle, because, by doing so RD would have taken into account that the county ground in Bristol often helps spinners (depending on the pitch used). That would mean that he would have listened to local experts – a fact conspicuous by its absence in the last match.

Also, I said that it may be foolish because I agree that we should have as many batsmen as possible (given our inconsistencies) when adding another bowler (spinner) doesn’t increase our armoury in a big way – given we have a few part timers who have done admirably on helpful surfaces.

no harm in trying out newbies (RS) - thats what they are there for specially when we are going to need some soon.

Finally, I hate to admit, that without much cricketing argument in the impression – I totally dislike RP.
He is an embodiment of what we don’t want as a cricketer. 4 F’s – Fat, Futile, Fumbling,… I will leave the fourth F for decency.
He is a good spinner but I totally dislike the package.

As far as your decent batsman argument – I cannot remember any innings at any time that he (RP)has played. Always remember him getting out for next to nothing. Maybe you will remind me.

[WicketView]

I would think much will depend on the pitches. If the conditions are conducive to seam, it would be better to use seamers rather than pacers.  This would also mean that the powerplays will not be the usual acceleration boards, rather the strategy would be to keep wickets look for bad deliveries and go for broke later as the ball gets older.   In this case, KKD is probably not a bad choice, as we have entrusted him the opener's job in tests with reasonable success. However, if the pitch is 'easy enough' that we feel that powerplays must be used as a springboard, I would prefer RU/Dhoni in there.


I know dropping GG sounds harsh to many of us, but then I would say the same has been meted out to  RU. To me the point is that many of these batsmen are not (yet) good complete batsmen, but have well developed facets. It would be best if choose the right mix of players to get the balance required for each match (ie. opposition/venue) rather than worrying about which choice is fair to the player ... we have far too much on our plate to look into that.

Regarding bowlers, I don't think there is much remedy available till our bowlers play consistently. Adding a bowler will not be of great help, because we have no guarantee that the extra bowler will bowl properly either, and could only have the effect of weakening the batting! This side has been overlooked for far too long.

[inoc]

I would think much will depend on the pitches. If the conditions are conducive to seam, it would be better to use seamers rather than pacers.  This would also mean that the powerplays will not be the usual acceleration boards, rather the strategy would be to keep wickets look for bad deliveries and go for broke later as the ball gets older.   In this case, KKD is probably not a bad choice, as we have entrusted him the opener's job in tests with reasonable success. However, if the pitch is 'easy enough' that we feel that powerplays must be used as a springboard, I would prefer RU/Dhoni in there.


I know dropping GG sounds harsh to many of us, but then I would say the same has been meted out to  RU. To me the point is that many of these batsmen are not (yet) good complete batsmen, but have well developed facets. It would be best if choose the right mix of players to get the balance required for each match (ie. opposition/venue) rather than worrying about which choice is fair to the player ... we have far too much on our plate to look into that.

Regarding bowlers, I don't think there is much remedy available till our bowlers play consistently. Adding a bowler will not be of great help, because we have no guarantee that the extra bowler will bowl properly either, and could only have the effect of weakening the batting! This side has been overlooked for far too long.

WV

I feel RU is a kind of VS clone. he needs to come at the top and do his thing. in that situation he has to replace SG/SRT. i dont mind that happening now and he has to be given a decent number of chances to decide one way or another. my feeling is he will be sehwagesque at best. time will tell and i think we should wait till we are ready to give him an extended time at the openers slot. when we start doing that, is upto the selectors.

KKD however, much to my surprise, has developed into a fighter who can play different roles. this is ideal for a number three and we should give him that slot for enough matches so that he can make it his own.

by the way the next match is at the county ground in bristol which is known to help spinners at times. i do agree with you regarding the 5th bowler issue.

[openforum]

SRT
SG
KKD (will not change this position  -- I think we erred in sending an in form batsman so low down the order)
YS
RD
GG
MSD
RPo
MP/AA
ZAK
RPS

kban

agree that we made a mistake regarding KKD.

however i have two concerns with the line up.

GG at no 7 is a waste. i would try RS. i know that GG was in form during the tour matches and this is somewhat harsh but the fact that he has failed time and again and the fact that we are pushing him to number 7 (ineffective place for him IMO) warrants a chance for RS. maybe we will do that later on in the series - who knows.

if dropping GG is harsh dropping PC is harsher. i have always had this opinion that bowlers, other than getting a raw deal with respect to the game itself also get a raw deal from the public/selectors. only a match ago we were praiing him in ireland and one loss and a poor performance and out he goes. unfair IMO.

i would get RS for GG and if by some miracle/foolishness decide to go for two spinners will have RP for GG.

KKD @ three is a must. we may however have to wait for the RD brainfreeze to thaw first.

I second that! get Rohit Sharma or PC in place of GG in the above lineup.

[keep-it-cool]

Heck, its only one match ... lets hold our horses a bit. Next we'll be talking about flying VS and IP in.

[broadbat]

BTW, nothing much to worry, as RD clearly said that we didn't play cricket yesterday 

Whatever they were playing they would have lost even if their opponents were playing the same game.

.   Dinesh Karthik,
2.   Sourav Ganguly,
3.   Rahul Dravid (flexible position),
4.   Sachin Tendulkar,
5.   Yuvraj Singh,
6.   Mahendra Singh Dhoni,
7.   Rohit Sharma,
8.   Ramesh Powar,
9.   Zaheer Khan,
10.   RP Singh,
11.   Munaf Patel or Ajit Agarkar.

Playing the extra batsman rarely seems to help because when they collapse they tend to do so in a heap. We certainly do miss an all rounder but playing Powar and PC  together seems the only way to go at present. With Powar and Munaf the fielding will drop to new lows but with AA being so expensive I see no option. I would replace RS with PC and have RD and SRT switch places in the above list.

Heck, its only one match ... lets hold our horses a bit. Next we'll be talking about flying VS and IP in.

Not a bad idea at all to get IP in!

[justforkix]

Reason for my choosing KKD over SG to open is the SG coming down the order enables him to take on Monty who will come into bowl mostly after the 2nd / 3rd power plays. This will ensure that we keep the momentum after the powerplays as well. I would also like to play PC as much as possible even at the expense of the third seam bowler.

The drawback here is that SG will be playing the middle overs with the field spread, which means more running and less 4s. We will lose out on 1s, 2s, 3s which we might otherwise get with KKD, YS, MSD.

[keep-it-cool]

Reason for my choosing KKD over SG to open is the SG coming down the order enables him to take on Monty who will come into bowl mostly after the 2nd / 3rd power plays. This will ensure that we keep the momentum after the powerplays as well. I would also like to play PC as much as possible even at the expense of the third seam bowler.

The drawback here is that SG will be playing the middle overs with the field spread, which means more running and less 4s. We will lose out on 1s, 2s, 3s which we might otherwise get with KKD, YS, MSD.

And, on evidence so far, everyone seems to be able to take Monty on.

[justforkix]

BTW, nothing much to worry, as RD clearly said that we didn't play cricket yesterday 

Whatever they were playing they would have lost even if their opponents were playing the same game.

No way, any opponent can beat us in running out partners 

[broadbat]

BTW, nothing much to worry, as RD clearly said that we didn't play cricket yesterday 

Whatever they were playing they would have lost even if their opponents were playing the same game.

No way, any opponent can beat us in running out partners 

Yeah now that Inzy has retired, or has he?

[Jai]

I agree with Inoc. GG at #7 is a complete waste. If he plays, it has to be in top 3. I will play both Pawar and Chawla because both are decent bats, especially PC and the other two reserves RU and RS are unlikely to click as a batsman in a big way considering they are new to these conditions. At least GG has got used to the conditions by now. So rather than playing RU or RS, I'll play both the spinners. Depends on the pitch too. In the last match, all the spinners failed. Since it's a 7 match series, we can try out all the possible combinations.

jai

Although we agree on the GG issue I don’t agree with the rest of your post.

Let me elaborate.

I said in my post that it will be a miracle if we decide to play five bowlers. It was based of the fact that we recently capitulated, batting wise, and it will be a bold captain who will go into the next match with fewer batsmen. On recent evidence we can negate that.

Again, I called it a miracle, because, by doing so RD would have taken into account that the county ground in Bristol often helps spinners (depending on the pitch used). That would mean that he would have listened to local experts – a fact conspicuous by its absence in the last match.

Also, I said that it may be foolish because I agree that we should have as many batsmen as possible (given our inconsistencies) when adding another bowler (spinner) doesn’t increase our armoury in a big way – given we have a few part timers who have done admirably on helpful surfaces.

no harm in trying out newbies (RS) - thats what they are there for specially when we are going to need some soon.

Finally, I hate to admit, that without much cricketing argument in the impression – I totally dislike RP.
He is an embodiment of what we don’t want as a cricketer. 4 F’s – Fat, Futile, Fumbling,… I will leave the fourth F for decency.
He is a good spinner but I totally dislike the package.

As far as your decent batsman argument – I cannot remember any innings at any time that he (RP)has played. Always remember him getting out for next to nothing. Maybe you will remind me.

I agree with the 'miracle' part that it's unlikely to happen, but my comments were basically my opinions and what I'd like to see out there as the team composition. To be honest, I've not seen much of Pawar in action, but read that he's more of an attacking player. He may not have played a good knock in the Intl. arena, but I believe he has been quite decent at the domestic level. The reason I am opting for both these spinners (pitch permitting) because our reserve batsmen are too raw for me to expect them to come good in England. So my logic is if these two bowlers can give me almost the same amount of runs but mainly give me the additional bowling options, then I'd rather take a gamble with them. If RU, GG or RS scores in single digit, their contribution is pretty much over in the game. Although I am not a big fan of IP's recall, but considering that fast bowlers (mostly the swing bowlers) did well in England, may be IP would have been a good option for this ODI series.

[gouravk]

Ramesh Powar is a fine player. He is an attacking bowler with a lot of skills - flight, guile loop, turn, variations in pace and though he does not have the doosra, he has a fine straighter delivery. ALso he is always open to experimenting round the wicket. He will not go on the defensive or bowl flat if the batsman goes after him, rather he will continue to attack and taunt him with the field held up.

Also he is an attacking stroke maker who has played plenty of crucial knocks for Mumbai. He has had a couple of decent international innings too.

And despite being fat he is one of the better fielders in this Indian side. Believe me he is quicker than most and in a side that boasts such wealth of fielding talent like Munaf, RP singh, ganguly, dravid zaheer etc. Powar can easily be in the top quarter of fielders.

[broadbat]

I agree with Inoc. GG at #7 is a complete waste. If he plays, it has to be in top 3. I will play both Pawar and Chawla because both are decent bats, especially PC and the other two reserves RU and RS are unlikely to click as a batsman in a big way considering they are new to these conditions. At least GG has got used to the conditions by now. So rather than playing RU or RS, I'll play both the spinners. Depends on the pitch too. In the last match, all the spinners failed. Since it's a 7 match series, we can try out all the possible combinations.

jai

Although we agree on the GG issue I don’t agree with the rest of your post.

Let me elaborate.

I said in my post that it will be a miracle if we decide to play five bowlers. It was based of the fact that we recently capitulated, batting wise, and it will be a bold captain who will go into the next match with fewer batsmen. On recent evidence we can negate that.

Again, I called it a miracle, because, by doing so RD would have taken into account that the county ground in Bristol often helps spinners (depending on the pitch used). That would mean that he would have listened to local experts – a fact conspicuous by its absence in the last match.

Also, I said that it may be foolish because I agree that we should have as many batsmen as possible (given our inconsistencies) when adding another bowler (spinner) doesn’t increase our armoury in a big way – given we have a few part timers who have done admirably on helpful surfaces.

no harm in trying out newbies (RS) - thats what they are there for specially when we are going to need some soon.

Finally, I hate to admit, that without much cricketing argument in the impression – I totally dislike RP.
He is an embodiment of what we don’t want as a cricketer. 4 F’s – Fat, Futile, Fumbling,… I will leave the fourth F for decency.
He is a good spinner but I totally dislike the package.

As far as your decent batsman argument – I cannot remember any innings at any time that he (RP)has played. Always remember him getting out for next to nothing. Maybe you will remind me.

 Although I am not a big fan of IP's recall, but considering that fast bowlers (mostly the swing bowlers) did well in England, may be IP would have been a good option for this ODI series.

Without an all rounder the ODI side looks so unbalanced. AA being a total flop with the bat, at this stage even IP looks a good bet.