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[prfsr]

Your crystal ball said India will not win the series, so it is hardly reliable

The ODI series -- I believe the odds are that India will win but this match gives the opposition some confidence.... and Flintoff will be back. Still, I think we will do better in the ODIs.

-P

[feverpitch]

From Crookinfo: “Had India enforced the follow-on, England would by now have a lead with five wickets standing. Whether that’s justification of Dravid’s decision or not, it’s proof of something,” says Andrew Miller.
“India’s bowlers were tired, and the pitch would have been one day younger. England could easily have been 400 for 3 at this stage,” adds Miller. “I say it’s the right call.” End of debate.

[pipsqueak]

From Crookinfo: “Had India enforced the follow-on, England would by now have a lead with five wickets standing. Whether that’s justification of Dravid’s decision or not, it’s proof of something,” says Andrew Miller.
“India’s bowlers were tired, and the pitch would have been one day younger. England could easily have been 400 for 3 at this stage,” adds Miller. “I say it’s the right call.” End of debate.

guess they were living at some underground bunkers yesterday and forgot to check the weather conditions and if our captain courageous had managed to hold on to an easy catch today, we might have even won today, DESPITE him.

[justforkix]

From Crookinfo: “Had India enforced the follow-on, England would by now have a lead with five wickets standing. Whether that’s justification of Dravid’s decision or not, it’s proof of something,” says Andrew Miller.
“India’s bowlers were tired, and the pitch would have been one day younger. England could easily have been 400 for 3 at this stage,” adds Miller. “I say it’s the right call.” End of debate.

It is proof of "Rombo Dumbbu"ness - nothing else 

[fineleg]

Your crystal ball said India will not win the series, so it is hardly reliable

The ODI series -- I believe the odds are that India will win but this match gives the opposition some confidence.... and Flintoff will be back. Still, I think we will do better in the ODIs.

-P

Yes with the magnificent allrounder Freddie Flintoff back it will be a boost to England, and Pietersen's aggressive ODI batting will hold the key. Hope Munaf Patel and Piyush Chawla can  bowl well.

[justforkix]

Your crystal ball said India will not win the series, so it is hardly reliable

The ODI series -- I believe the odds are that India will win but this match gives the opposition some confidence.... and Flintoff will be back. Still, I think we will do better in the ODIs.

-P

Yes with the magnificent allrounder Freddie Flintoff back it will be a boost to England, and Pietersen's aggressive ODI batting will hold the key. Hope Munaf Patel and Piyush Chawla can  bowl well.

Hey - you forgot Rombo Dumbbu's quirky captaincy at times - that is a big boost for Eng too 

[inoc]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

[ruchir]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

[inoc]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

That does not mean that he couldnt bowl and was a reason for his decision. many times players come out with strapped body parts more to protect than anything else, not only in cricket but in most sports. how many times have you seen tennis players come out with their thighs strapped and carry on playing their normal game.

[dextrous]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

There are three grades of thigh muscle strains. If Zaheer had even a grade 2 or grade 3 tear, he wouldn't be walking. It is also highly unlikely that he was suffering from a grade 1 tear because he never showed any visible signs of discomfort. So, most likely, it wasn't even severe enough to be classified as thigh strain, which is why the manager rubbished the charges (and for some reason you refuse to believe the OFFICIAL spokesperson for the team). And if it really is a grade 1 tear, then one or two days isn't going to do a damn thing to rest Zaheer--he'll need a few weeks off. It isn't the kind of injury where you can be heroic and come out and bowl as he did today (unlike a broken finger), so it is very hard to believe that he is carrying an injury. Hell, he'd have a hard time walking, leave alone bowling with a run-up with Grade 1/2/3 thigh tear. So yeah, he might be carrying a 'niggle' but it can't possibly be serious at the rate he bowled today.

[ruchir]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

That does not mean that he couldnt bowl and was a reason for his decision. many times players come out with strapped body parts more to protect than anything else, not only in cricket but in most sports. how many times have you seen tennis players come out with their thighs strapped and carry on playing their normal game.

Tennis, Badminton, Squash etc. are all individual games. Cricket is different. It is a team game where performance of every player counts.

In Tennis, if you are injured and can't play, you surrender then game, you lose. In cricket, in the scenario of enforcing follow-on, you still have an option of giving the player those extra hours to relax.

I have seen people come out and play cricket while injured. Kumble's in WI, for example. SRT vs PAK, another one. However, when players wear protection as non-injury protective option, they wear it mostly on joints, bones, sensitive areas. Example) Knee guard, Elbow guard, Ab guard, Pads for close catchers, Helmet, Finger tape. I have not seen a player come out wearing back brace, thigh straps, ankle straps as a protective option, to protect from future injuries. Such braces are worn only when the player has an injury (big or small) in those areas.

In cricket, players do continue to play despite injury. But in most such occasions, the captain does not have the option of enforcing or delaying follow-on. In most such occasions, the play is going on and bowler is injured. He has 2 options. 1) Sit out the inning. 2) Bowl with injury. The inning can't be stopped or delayed, so the captain/player chooses accordingly. Here, RD had the option of delaying going to field (in case ZK was injured to the point of being given extra rest).

[ruchir]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

There are three grades of thigh muscle strains. If Zaheer had even a grade 2 or grade 3 tear, he wouldn't be walking. It is also highly unlikely that he was suffering from a grade 1 tear because he never showed any visible signs of discomfort. So, most likely, it wasn't even severe enough to be classified as thigh strain, which is why the manager rubbished the charges (and for some reason you refuse to believe the OFFICIAL spokesperson for the team). And if it really is a grade 1 tear, then one or two days isn't going to do a damn thing to rest Zaheer--he'll need a few weeks off. It isn't the kind of injury where you can be heroic and come out and bowl as he did today (unlike a broken finger), so it is very hard to believe that he is carrying an injury. Hell, he'd have a hard time walking, leave alone bowling with a run-up with Grade 1/2/3 thigh tear. So yeah, he might be carrying a 'niggle' but it can't possibly be serious at the rate he bowled today.

Doctor Sahib,

Did you see ZK wearing the thigh strap or not? Yes? No? If he was wearing a thigh strap, why was he wearing it? No one wears a thigh strap to protect himself from a future injury in thigh muscles. The fact the he was wearing a thigh strap tell me that there was something wrong with his leg before he came out to bowl in 4th inning. How big it was? I don't know. Maybe we will hear about it in coming days. But if there was something wrong, then it is possible that RD thought of not risking aggravating it in the middle of ENG inning. Maybe RD thought of a scenario where ZK is unable to bowl and IND is left stranded with 3 bowlers. So, he played safe and did not enforce follow-on. Again, I am basing this on the fact that ZK came out with thigh straps.

[WicketView]

Couldnt there be the usual simpler "bowlers needed a break" explanation ?

Yes. and it would have been a perfectly valid explanation too if not for the conditions under which RD decided to bat again (overcast) and the fact that we nudged along to 100/5 in 40 overs and not blazed to 160 all out in 35 overs. Surely, a team with RD, SG, MSD, VVS can still do this after 11/3.

No.

If someone was injured, that is a possible explanation. But if bowlers needed a break because they were tired bowling slightly more than a day in England (not subcontinental conditions), maybe they need to be kicked out of test cricket.

[dextrous]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

There are three grades of thigh muscle strains. If Zaheer had even a grade 2 or grade 3 tear, he wouldn't be walking. It is also highly unlikely that he was suffering from a grade 1 tear because he never showed any visible signs of discomfort. So, most likely, it wasn't even severe enough to be classified as thigh strain, which is why the manager rubbished the charges (and for some reason you refuse to believe the OFFICIAL spokesperson for the team). And if it really is a grade 1 tear, then one or two days isn't going to do a damn thing to rest Zaheer--he'll need a few weeks off. It isn't the kind of injury where you can be heroic and come out and bowl as he did today (unlike a broken finger), so it is very hard to believe that he is carrying an injury. Hell, he'd have a hard time walking, leave alone bowling with a run-up with Grade 1/2/3 thigh tear. So yeah, he might be carrying a 'niggle' but it can't possibly be serious at the rate he bowled today.

Doctor Sahib,

Did you see ZK wearing the thigh strap or not? Yes? No? If he was wearing a thigh strap, why was he wearing it? No one wears a thigh strap to protect himself from a future injury in thigh muscles. The fact the he was wearing a thigh strap tell me that there was something wrong with his leg before he came out to bowl in 4th inning. How big it was? I don't know. Maybe we will hear about it in coming days. But if there was something wrong, then it is possible that RD thought of not risking aggravating it in the middle of ENG inning. Maybe RD thought of a scenario where ZK is unable to bowl and IND is left stranded with 3 bowlers. So, he played safe and did not enforce follow-on. Again, I am basing this on the fact that ZK came out with thigh straps.

It is well within the realm of possibility that Zaheer felt slight discomfort and put on the thigh strap, however, it is not probable that he has even a significant thigh strain and he was able to RUN and bowl with that. For one, the pain will be too much (and he will simply be unable to support himself) and two, the team physio would never allow someone with a torn thigh muscle to go out there and play, given that it can lead to months of rest if it gets worse. But, in any case, the only credible statement in this regard has come from the manager--and unless we know otherwise, it is IMO silly to suggest that Zaheer bowled today with a serious thigh injury.

[kban1]

How does it matter ?

The fact that he bowled after the Indian innings (which gave him what- a mere 3 hours of rest) shows that the thigh injury was a non issue.

To top it all, look at what England did under swinging conditions and a cloud cover --without Sidebottom, they reduced India to 11-3. And thats where we missed the trick -- not utilizing swinging conditions for over 3 hours.

And giving bowlers a rest -- oh please. They are bowling in English conditions, had a full night's rest (bowled only 7 overs in the morning). The theory that 3 extra hours of rest would help rejuvenate them when a whole nights rest couldnt is nothing but a poor excuse for a defensive safety first approach, an approach that possibly cost us a 2-0 win and the #2 position in the ICC rankings.

[ruchir]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

There are three grades of thigh muscle strains. If Zaheer had even a grade 2 or grade 3 tear, he wouldn't be walking. It is also highly unlikely that he was suffering from a grade 1 tear because he never showed any visible signs of discomfort. So, most likely, it wasn't even severe enough to be classified as thigh strain, which is why the manager rubbished the charges (and for some reason you refuse to believe the OFFICIAL spokesperson for the team). And if it really is a grade 1 tear, then one or two days isn't going to do a damn thing to rest Zaheer--he'll need a few weeks off. It isn't the kind of injury where you can be heroic and come out and bowl as he did today (unlike a broken finger), so it is very hard to believe that he is carrying an injury. Hell, he'd have a hard time walking, leave alone bowling with a run-up with Grade 1/2/3 thigh tear. So yeah, he might be carrying a 'niggle' but it can't possibly be serious at the rate he bowled today.

Doctor Sahib,

Did you see ZK wearing the thigh strap or not? Yes? No? If he was wearing a thigh strap, why was he wearing it? No one wears a thigh strap to protect himself from a future injury in thigh muscles. The fact the he was wearing a thigh strap tell me that there was something wrong with his leg before he came out to bowl in 4th inning. How big it was? I don't know. Maybe we will hear about it in coming days. But if there was something wrong, then it is possible that RD thought of not risking aggravating it in the middle of ENG inning. Maybe RD thought of a scenario where ZK is unable to bowl and IND is left stranded with 3 bowlers. So, he played safe and did not enforce follow-on. Again, I am basing this on the fact that ZK came out with thigh straps.

It is well within the realm of possibility that Zaheer felt slight discomfort and put on the thigh strap, however, it is not probable that he has even a significant thigh strain and he was able to RUN and bowl with that. For one, the pain will be too much (and he will simply be unable to support himself) and two, the team physio would never allow someone with a torn thigh muscle to go out there and play, given that it can lead to months of rest if it gets worse. But, in any case, the only credible statement in this regard has come from the manager--and unless we know otherwise, it is IMO silly to suggest that Zaheer bowled today with a serious thigh injury.

With this post I am delving into the realm of medicine, but what the hell...

http://www.physioroom.com/injuries/hip_and_thigh/thigh_strain_full.php

Signs & Symptoms

With a grade one Thigh strain the signs may not be present until after the activity is over. There may be a sensation of cramp or Thigh tightness and a slight feeling of pain when the muscles are stretched or contracted.

Let us assume ZK had grade one thigh strain. Or even a strain milder than grade one. Even a grade one strain feels like a mild cramp or has a slight feeling of pain. It is not described as dangerous as you make it sound like -> the pain will be too much (and he will simply be unable to support himself). It is not beyond the realm of possibility that after day 3 ended, ZK complained of a niggle in his thigh and the physio concluded that it MIGHT be a thigh strain beginning to develop. Now read this:

Treatment

The immediate treatment for a Thigh muscle injury consists of rest, ice, and compression (never apply ice directly to the skin). This is aimed at reducing the bleeding and damage within the muscle tissue. Resting may be the common sense approach, but it is one that is often ignored by competitive athletes. This is unwise, since it does not take much to turn a grade one Thigh strain into a grade two, or a grade two Thigh strain into a grade three.

Do you see this? It does not take long for a thigh strain to upgrade.

So, first of all, not all thigh strains are as dangerous as you make them out to be. Second, maybe ZK's discomfort started out like a strain that physio concluded to be a developing thigh strain. Since thigh strains can go bad pretty quickly, it was decided to continue with rest / ice for a few more hours rather than risk the niggle go bad mid-inning when ENG is playing after follow-on. As it happened, probably the niggle was just that, a niggle. ZK came out to bowl with a thigh strap, but did not feel anything much because of the rest / ice he got in the mean time.

Is this an extraordinary stretch of imagination?

[ruchir]

How does it matter ?

The fact that he bowled after the Indian innings (which gave him what- a mere 3 hours of rest) shows that the thigh injury was a non issue.

To top it all, look at what England did under swinging conditions and a cloud cover --without Sidebottom, they reduced India to 11-3. And thats where we missed the trick -- not utilizing swinging conditions for over 3 hours.

And giving bowlers a rest -- oh please. They are bowling in English conditions, had a full night's rest (bowled only 7 overs in the morning). The theory that 3 extra hours of rest would help rejuvenate them when a whole nights rest couldnt is nothing but a poor excuse for a defensive safety first approach, an approach that possibly cost us a 2-0 win and the #2 position in the ICC rankings.

I am more disappointed in us not winning this test, than you can imagine. That's why I have not even posted a customary congratulation note. If I was in RD's place I would have risked aggravating ZK's injury and enforced follow-on.

As for ZK's thigh being a non-issue, please read my post above.

Also, it was not 3 hours rest. It was nearly 4.5 to 5 hours.

[inoc]

Ruchir

I will not argue with you regarding the causes, types of muscular strain and its management. I know what you are saying is incorrect and let us stop that line of discussion. It should be sufficient here to say that if there was any significant strain a few hours of rest could not or would not have helped. It would have required days of rest

It is possible that he had cramps which would have helped with that time period of rest. Anyway my argument was not whether he had one or not but somebody from the Indian camp denied it and RD failed to mention it, which might mean that there is some substance to the theory that ZK was not unfit.

Your theory that he was unfit (which may be true but not necessarily so) is based on the fact that ‘because he was wearing a strapping it must be injured’, this again is not the case.

Your argument that nobody wears/straps thighs for protection -  is just wrong. Having first hand knowledge of work in this field I don’t have to go by your seemingly authoritative pronouncements. Sports medicine manufacturers actually make those strapping (usually made of neoprene) specifically for this purpose. There are pants, strapping, girdles available in the market designed to prevent recurrent thigh/ hamstring injuries.

Again Ruchir, he may have been injured as you suggest but just entertain the thought that he might not have been as well.

[dave_dj]

True inoc - even I wear them - basically to prevent injury to my shin splints.

From outside, the decision to not enforce follow-on seems monumentally stupid but we of course are not privy to what led the captain to make that decision - we are just guessing depending on want we want to believe.

While Dravid's decision was to seal the series, his batting was unbelievably contrary to what what may be the reason for not enforcing follow-on.  In the end, it is heart-warming to see that we did not yield in this test like we did in the past after winning a test overseas.  We played clinically in first innings of this test and that was a huge leap for us.  Hopefully, we can continue to play to win series and not just one-off test as we did int he past.

It is hard to accept a  drawn test from where we were yesterday but we have to move on.  The only thing is that Englishmen may always come back and say only if the weather did not help us in the first test, this would have been a drawn series.

This series kind of shows that we possibly can do reasonably well if we get solid start consistently in a series.  Hopefully WK and KKD will continue to flourish opening us opportunities in more overseas series wins.

[fineleg]

True inoc - even I wear them - basically to prevent injury to my shin splints.

From outside, the decision to not enforce follow-on seems monumentally stupid but we of course are not privy to what led the captain to make that decision - we are just guessing depending on want we want to believe.

While Dravid's decision was to seal the series, his batting was unbelievably contrary to what what may be the reason for not enforcing follow-on.  In the end, it is heart-warming to see that we did not yield in this test like we did in the past after winning a test overseas.  We played clinically in first innings of this test and that was a huge leap for us.  Hopefully, we can continue to play to win series and not just one-off test as we did int he past.

It is hard to accept a  drawn test from where we were yesterday but we have to move on.  The only thing is that Englishmen may always come back and say only if the weather did not help us in the first test, this would have been a drawn series.

This series kind of shows that we possibly can do reasonably well if we get solid start consistently in a series.  Hopefully WK and KKD will continue to flourish opening us opportunities in more overseas series wins.

Eggjacktly to the last point, dave_dj.

Starts are critical in Test matches, when Viru and Akash Chopra gave us the starts, we did wonders in Australia 2004.
When Viru? and Bangar gave us the starts in Eng, we did alright.

Now, WJ and KKD have given the starts, it is just super important we get those opening partnerships going.

[pipsqueak]

Ruchir

I will not argue with you regarding the causes, types of muscular strain and its management. I know what you are saying is incorrect and let us stop that line of discussion. It should be sufficient here to say that if there was any significant strain a few hours of rest could not or would not have helped. It would have required days of rest

It is possible that he had cramps which would have helped with that time period of rest. Anyway my argument was not whether he had one or not but somebody from the Indian camp denied it and RD failed to mention it, which might mean that there is some substance to the theory that ZK was not unfit.

Your theory that he was unfit (which may be true but not necessarily so) is based on the fact that ‘because he was wearing a strapping it must be injured’, this again is not the case.

Your argument that nobody wears/straps thighs for protection -  is just wrong. Having first hand knowledge of work in this field I don’t have to go by your seemingly authoritative pronouncements. Sports medicine manufacturers actually make those strapping (usually made of neoprene) specifically for this purpose. There are pants, strapping, girdles available in the market designed to prevent recurrent thigh/ hamstring injuries.

Again Ruchir, he may have been injured as you suggest but just entertain the thought that he might not have been as well.

in his post match interview with Star cricket, he said that his bowlers were TIRED and only he knows how tired they were and not the fans who sit in the living room. also added that as a captain, he has to look after his boys - not a mention of his brain strain or ZK's thigh strain.

of course, bhogle/wilkins didn't ask him about his match saving innings. 

[LosingNow]

Ruchir:
Why did ZK come to field at the beginning of day 4 when we were wrapping up the England innings?

[broadbat]

Ruchir:
Why did ZK come to field at the beginning of day 4 when we were wrapping up the England innings?

At the beginning of day 4 we were not exactly wrapping up the English innings. We had just ordered for the wrapping paper.

[kban1]

ruchir:

As for ZK's thigh being a non-issue, please read my post above.

I have read your post and it tells me nothing that I didn't aready know.

The point is simple -- unless it was cramps, there is nothing that 5 hours of rest would have solved that had not already been solved by an overnight rest. This will be confirmed by most people with a medical background as well.

And the fact that he was bowling means that for all practical purposes it was a non issue.

Also, it was not 3 hours rest. It was nearly 4.5 to 5 hours.

Aceepted, still does not make a difference.

If anything 5 hours, 4 of which were under overcast conditions and cloud cover would have helped us take more England wickets.

Also remember England bowled without Sidebottom.

[keep-it-cool]

4 of which were under overcast conditions and cloud cover would have helped us take more England wickets.

Remember, this happened as the players were about to take the field .. and after the follow on decision had been taken.

[Libran]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

Legend has it that way back in 1980, a young Jat from Haryana in his first tour of Australia had a thigh strain...the fighter that he was, tied a handkerchief around the thigh and bowled India to what was a famous victory....

[broadbat]

Wasn't ZK having a thigh strain yesterday?

There were whispers that spearhead Zaheer Khan had a left thigh strain, which influenced Dravid’s decision, but manager Rocky Rufus rubbished that. In any case, Zaheer bowled in the second innings.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070813/asp/sports/story_8186401.asp

Isn't that LPS is supposed to say!!

Anyway, ZK got rest and bowled in 2nd innings. Who knows, had he bowled after follow-on, he might have made the strain worse and might have had to leave the field like Sidebottom. Then, imagine an Indian attack minus ZK trying to bowl out ENG again. Anyway, he started bowling in 2nd inning with his thigh strapped.

well after the match RD didnt mention the thigh strain as one the reasons for his decision.
LPS may have been right after all

Did you see ZK come out to bowl in 4th innings in thigh straps or not?

Legend has it that way back in 1980, a young Jat from Haryana in his first tour of Australia had a thigh strain...the fighter that he was, tied a handkerchief around the thigh and bowled India to what was a famous victory....

True but ZK did it without a thigh strap just in the previous Test. Anyway ZK and KD, apples and oranges really.

[kban1]

Remember, this happened as the players were about to take the field .. and after the follow on decision had been taken.

Actually beg to differ with you on this kic

Atherton & Co on Sky were referring to it when Panesar & Tremlett were batting.

[keep-it-cool]

Remember, this happened as the players were about to take the field .. and after the follow on decision had been taken.

Actually beg to differ with you on this kic

Atherton & Co on Sky were referring to it when Panesar & Tremlett were batting.

I didnt hear the Sky commentators. But, I watched the match. Conditions seemed in no way different from what they were on the previous two days. The material difference was visible only when India batted.

Moreover, I dont think it was that big an issue at all. I think the entire thing got blown out of proportion by the way RD batted. WJ got a bad decision. KKD and SRT got good deliveries, they were definitely not victims of the conditions. SG played an innings that was as close to blinder as one could get in the test match.

[broadbat]

Does anyone not think that even with the follow on not enforced etc we still had enough time to bowl them out on a 5th day track. ZK going wicketless could have been the difference.

[gouravk]

I do. 110 overs is fair time to bowl a team out.

[Nima]

Does anyone not think that even with the follow on not enforced etc we still had enough time to bowl them out on a 5th day track. ZK going wicketless could have been the difference.

ZK going wicketless, any chance it could be due to the thigh strain

[gouravk]

Could be. Could also be law of averages/fatigue at the end of a tough series in which he did so much work. Same thing happened with Sreesanth in South Africa.

[ruchir]

This is from the newspaper trusted by most on this DG:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/08/13/stories/2007081353692100.htm

In England’s first innings, Zaheer Khan bowled 22 overs, S. Sreesanth delivered 21, R.P. Singh ran up for 18, and Kumble wheeled out 29.1: not back-breaking workloads by any measure. But, it became evident on Sunday evening that Zaheer was nursing a thigh strain. He went off the field with the physio during his opening spell to get it strapped. There was a clue earlier: Dravid didn’t open on Sunday with Zaheer and Kumble as he had at Trent Bridge when he had needed to dismiss the tail.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is from Cricinfo:

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/engvind/engine/match/258470.html?innings=4;view=commentary

One issue for the Indians is the slight thigh strain that Zaheer Khan is carrying. He needed treatment yesterday evening and wasn't quite his normal threat with the new ball. That means plenty of work for the other bowlers and the likes of Sachin Tendulkar as well.



End of over 21 (maiden) - England 56/0
AN Cook          27* (54b 3x4)            S Sreesanth          6-4-5-0
AJ Strauss          23* (72b 4x4)            A Kumble          5-1-21-0

Zaheer Khan will start from the Pavilion End, how fit is he? Three slips and a gully



23.2     Khan to Cook, no run, back of a length and pushed towards mid-on

According to the Indian camp, Zaheer's thigh is much better today - hardly an issue now

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/cricket.html?in_article_id=474855&in_page_id=1849&ct=5

Dravid will be vindicated if Kumble and Co take advantage of a wearing pitch and dismiss England today but, with Zaheer Khan nursing a thigh injury, England really should be able to bat their way to at least safety on The Oval's fabled surface. Thanks to Rahul.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Guardian:

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/englandindia2007/story/0,,2147637,00.html

It emerged yesterday that Zaheer has a thigh strain so that might have had some bearing on the decision .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of you who don't believe that ZK was carrying a niggle, I don't care what you believe, I don't care what RD said was a reason to not enforce follow-on. I saw ZK wearing a thigh strap. It was reported that he was having a problem. I thank god the problem did not aggravate. That's all I have to say. Sure, I'm not a doctor, and there are quite a few present here who seem to know more about ZK's strain than ZK and RD themselves. I will not argue about that. Sure all the media (quoted above) might be spreading lies, or all of them might have been lied to by RD and his cronies. Only Rocky Rufus is the honest man in the visiting side. Rest all are liars and dishonest people.

[pipsqueak]

This is from the newspaper trusted by most on this DG:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/08/13/stories/2007081353692100.htm

In England’s first innings, Zaheer Khan bowled 22 overs, S. Sreesanth delivered 21, R.P. Singh ran up for 18, and Kumble wheeled out 29.1: not back-breaking workloads by any measure. But, it became evident on Sunday evening that Zaheer was nursing a thigh strain. He went off the field with the physio during his opening spell to get it strapped. There was a clue earlier: Dravid didn’t open on Sunday with Zaheer and Kumble as he had at Trent Bridge when he had needed to dismiss the tail.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is from Cricinfo:

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/engvind/engine/match/258470.html?innings=4;view=commentary

One issue for the Indians is the slight thigh strain that Zaheer Khan is carrying. He needed treatment yesterday evening and wasn't quite his normal threat with the new ball. That means plenty of work for the other bowlers and the likes of Sachin Tendulkar as well.



End of over 21 (maiden) - England 56/0
AN Cook          27* (54b 3x4)            S Sreesanth          6-4-5-0
AJ Strauss          23* (72b 4x4)            A Kumble          5-1-21-0

Zaheer Khan will start from the Pavilion End, how fit is he? Three slips and a gully



23.2     Khan to Cook, no run, back of a length and pushed towards mid-on

According to the Indian camp, Zaheer's thigh is much better today - hardly an issue now

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/cricket.html?in_article_id=474855&in_page_id=1849&ct=5

Dravid will be vindicated if Kumble and Co take advantage of a wearing pitch and dismiss England today but, with Zaheer Khan nursing a thigh injury, England really should be able to bat their way to at least safety on The Oval's fabled surface. Thanks to Rahul.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Guardian:

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/englandindia2007/story/0,,2147637,00.html

It emerged yesterday that Zaheer has a thigh strain so that might have had some bearing on the decision .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of you who don't believe that ZK was carrying a niggle, I don't care what you believe, I don't care what RD said was a reason to not enforce follow-on. I saw ZK wearing a thigh strap. It was reported that he was having a problem. I thank god the problem did not aggravate. That's all I have to say. Sure, I'm not a doctor, and there are quite a few present here who seem to know more about ZK's strain than ZK and RD themselves. I will not argue about that. Sure all the media (quoted above) might be spreading lies, or all of them might have been lied to by RD and his cronies. Only Rocky Rufus is the honest man in the visiting side. Rest all are liars and dishonest people.

nah, only the person who disagrees with your theory is a liar.

RD did not mention thigh strain ever and insisted that he just wanted his bowlers to rest. He was explicitly asked about the follow-on decision.

[sudzz]

This is from the newspaper trusted by most on this DG:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/08/13/stories/2007081353692100.htm

In England’s first innings, Zaheer Khan bowled 22 overs, S. Sreesanth delivered 21, R.P. Singh ran up for 18, and Kumble wheeled out 29.1: not back-breaking workloads by any measure. But, it became evident on Sunday evening that Zaheer was nursing a thigh strain. He went off the field with the physio during his opening spell to get it strapped. There was a clue earlier: Dravid didn’t open on Sunday with Zaheer and Kumble as he had at Trent Bridge when he had needed to dismiss the tail.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is from Cricinfo:

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/engvind/engine/match/258470.html?innings=4;view=commentary

One issue for the Indians is the slight thigh strain that Zaheer Khan is carrying. He needed treatment yesterday evening and wasn't quite his normal threat with the new ball. That means plenty of work for the other bowlers and the likes of Sachin Tendulkar as well.



End of over 21 (maiden) - England 56/0
AN Cook          27* (54b 3x4)            S Sreesanth          6-4-5-0
AJ Strauss          23* (72b 4x4)            A Kumble          5-1-21-0

Zaheer Khan will start from the Pavilion End, how fit is he? Three slips and a gully



23.2     Khan to Cook, no run, back of a length and pushed towards mid-on

According to the Indian camp, Zaheer's thigh is much better today - hardly an issue now

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/cricket.html?in_article_id=474855&in_page_id=1849&ct=5

Dravid will be vindicated if Kumble and Co take advantage of a wearing pitch and dismiss England today but, with Zaheer Khan nursing a thigh injury, England really should be able to bat their way to at least safety on The Oval's fabled surface. Thanks to Rahul.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Guardian:

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/englandindia2007/story/0,,2147637,00.html

It emerged yesterday that Zaheer has a thigh strain so that might have had some bearing on the decision .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of you who don't believe that ZK was carrying a niggle, I don't care what you believe, I don't care what RD said was a reason to not enforce follow-on. I saw ZK wearing a thigh strap. It was reported that he was having a problem. I thank god the problem did not aggravate. That's all I have to say. Sure, I'm not a doctor, and there are quite a few present here who seem to know more about ZK's strain than ZK and RD themselves. I will not argue about that. Sure all the media (quoted above) might be spreading lies, or all of them might have been lied to by RD and his cronies. Only Rocky Rufus is the honest man in the visiting side. Rest all are liars and dishonest people.

nah, only the person who disagrees with your theory is a liar.

RD did not mention thigh strain ever and insisted that he just wanted his bowlers to rest. He was explicitly asked about the follow-on decision.

Oh yes thigh strain indeed, I wonder what colour was it and who delivered it???

[inoc]

most of these reports are before the final day when such speculation was officially denied by the indian team. media manager and even borde if you believe certain reports.

it may have been that ZK had a niggle at the end of the third day, but a 'strain' is different from a niggle and would not have him coming out to bowl later on. from the going ons i presume that ZK felt something at the end of the third day but it all proved to be minor hence the later denials. his strapping was most likely protective.