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pipsqueak

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Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« on: August 05, 2007, 10:05:50 AM »
Beamers must be punished with ban

By Mike Atherton, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 11:53pm BST 04/08/2007

On Thursday, refreshed in body and mind, India and England will square up again at the Oval. It is difficult to envisage any changes being made to either line-up: winning teams tend not to be tinkered with, and England played well enough in spurts for Peter Moores to give his 11 a chance of redemption. One name, though, should be missing from the scorecard, that of Shanthakumaran Sreesanth. Not to save the printing industry some ink, but to send out the message that the beamer has no place in cricket.

Predictably enough, it was 'Jellygate', not Sreesanth's beamer or his deliberate overstepping of the front line by a yard to bowl a rapid bouncer, which dominated the headlines. Whoever was responsible for leaving the sugary sweet on a length (sales of them must have leapt in Nottingham and I'd forgotten just how good they taste) has had a swift reminder that Test cricket, especially involving India, is a serious business. It was a puerile prank gone wrong; harmless, silly and unlikely to be repeated - and not very smart, either, since it has alerted everyone to the method used by England to try to induce some extra swing.

Sreesanth did feel the match referee's finger under his collar, but that was for a trifling nudge against Michael Vaughan's shoulder. Vaughan's reaction to that, a scornful turn of the head, a withering look and a curled lip in Sreesanth's direction, was in stark contrast to his animated reaction at the non-striker's end when Sreesanth sent down his hand-to-head delivery that nearly decapitated Kevin Pietersen. I don't think I've ever seen the England captain angrier on the field.

Rightly, he had no truck with Sreesanth's immediate apology, accusing him of missing his length by 30 yards and blasting any Indian fielder within earshot. The England captain had his calculations and his priorities right, even if the match referee didn't. By fining Sreesanth 50 per cent of his match fee for a shoulder nudge that could have inflicted no physical damage and ignoring the beamer which could have maimed a less alert batsman, the International Cricket Council once again showed a liking for the irrelevancies over the issues that matter.

Mirroring the ICC's misguided sense of priorities, there was little comment in the media about Sreesanth's 'delivery'. This is partly because only one man, Sreesanth himself, knows whether it was deliberate, partly because a coterie of former bowlers in the press box (Mike Selvey an exception) are inclined to take the charitable view that it was not, and partly because there was so much more, other than the cricket, to talk about. But I have no doubt that Sreesanth's rancorous spell, which included the beamer and the no-ball, was the most glaring example in the match of something that ran completely counter to the spirit of the game. Forget the jellybeans and inane chatter.

Certainly, Sreesanth apologised to Pietersen immediately by raising his right hand but he was quick enough to turn to his mark leaving the batsman to dust himself down unattended. The royal wave was all that was needed for him to be portrayed as an innocent in the matter and to be forgiven. Later that evening Paul Collingwood sportingly did so on behalf of the England team, but his acceptance was hardly gushing.

Rather an apology than nothing, but it seems to me that the apology is irrelevant. The damage could have been severe. A batsman is conditioned to look for the ball on a downward trajectory out of the bowler's hand, and therefore will not necessarily pick it up. (The only other time I've seen one bowled in a Test match, by Glenn McGrath, it stuck straight in Mark Ramprakash's grille without the batsman flinching).

Moreover, an apology doesn't necessarily mean it is sincere. With match referees on the prowl, any bowler with an ounce of survival instinct is bound to apologise, deliberately bowled or not. And the batsman/batting side has no option but to accept it, for if it is not accepted then the moral high ground shifts in favour of the bowler, whose integrity is suddenly in question.

Only Sreesanth knows his own mind, but there was a glaring absence of extenuating circumstances: the ball wasn't new and the lacquer had worn off, making it less likely to slip out of his hand; it wasn't wet; he had directional problems but hardly of the 'yips' variety. We do know that, since the ball landed at the wicket-keeper's feet, he missed his length by a good 30 yards, an extraordinary failing for an international bowler. If it did slip, it slipped with remarkable accuracy, honing in on Pietersen's skull. Shortly afterwards he overstepped the front mark by two feet to bowl a rapid bouncer at Collingwood. Sreesanth was hardly in control of his emotions during that particular spell.


If bowled deliberately there cannot be a more cowardly action on a cricket field; if bowled accidentally it is still potentially lethal. Either way it should incur an immediate one-match ban. (Only obvious extenuating circumstances, such as a one-day game played in the rain, should save the bowler from such a penalty).Thankfully, the beamer is a rare sight in cricket. Brett Lee has been known to bowl it occasionally, usually in one-day cricket; Curtly Ambrose made headlines for the wrong reasons playing for Northamptonshire when he sent down two beamers at Dermot Reeve (who had incensed Ambrose by sweeping him). Deliberate or accidental, a beamer should incur an immediate ban to ensure that it remains so.

Since the match referee, Ranjan Madugalle, remained silent on the issue, it is Rahul Dravid who should take the appropriate disciplinary action ahead of the Oval Test match. Even if he doesn't want to take disciplinary action, he should ask himself: does he really want a bowler who so obviously cannot control his emotions to play in such a crunch encounter? After the Test, the bowling coach Venkatesh Prasad defended his protege by saying he has "all the talent required to succeed at Test level".

Heaven knows there are countless talented cricketers who have failed to make the grade, talent being just one part of the whole package.

The pity of it all was that the niggling, the jellybeans, the beamer and the no-ball detracted from what was a fascinating Test match. After the dross of the early summer, it was again a privilege to be watching Test cricket. More than that, Sreesanth's actions left a sour taste in the mouth and detracted from what was a stunning Indian performance.

After the Test the talk should not have been of sugary sweets, but bitter pills.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/08/05/scaths105.xml

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ganavk

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 04:53:34 PM »
What a hypocrite! if at all Sree has to be banned then it has to be for that no ball and not for that beamer. I don't remember Atherton asking Brett Lee to be banned when he used to bowl beamers regularly. he did not open his mouth when Simon Jones did it against Hyden in that 2005 series.
That reference to ink is a cheap shot. I hope Sree can sue him for that..
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dave_dj

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 05:44:35 PM »
What a hypocrite! if at all Sree has to be banned then it has to be for that no ball and not for that beamer. I don't remember Atherton asking Brett Lee to be banned when he used to bowl beamers regularly. he did not open his mouth when Simon Jones did it against Hyden in that 2005 series.
That reference to ink is a cheap shot. I hope Sree can sue him for that..
It's the kind of hipocrisy that allows USA (and rest of the Western world) say - "We can go to Iraq to firht terrorism but India should talk it out with Pakistan when in fact India is suffering each day for decades - killing people several times that died on 9/11.
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sgusa

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2007, 08:04:49 PM »
Now I know why I get banend from the DG. Must be my beamer !  :icon_jokercolor:
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LosingNow

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2007, 08:20:49 PM »
Now I know why I get banend from the DG. Must be my beamer !  :icon_jokercolor:
1 data point <> trend!!
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sgusa

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2007, 08:28:49 PM »
Now I know why I get banend from the DG. Must be my beamer !  :icon_jokercolor:
1 data point <> trend!!

I went to Grad School  :icon_jokercolor: :glasses3:
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LosingNow

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2007, 08:43:40 PM »
Now I know why I get banend from the DG. Must be my beamer !  :icon_jokercolor:
1 data point <> trend!!

I went to Grad School  :icon_jokercolor: :glasses3:
Good.. now start applying what you learnt
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2007, 08:47:33 PM »
Now I know why I get banend from the DG. Must be my beamer !  :icon_jokercolor:
never lose an opportunity to advertise your beamer :D. dude, there are no chicks here  ::Whip:: ::Whip::


I went to Grad School
  :icon_jokercolor: :glasses3:

[youtube=425,350]gVCMz9nugvQ[/youtube]
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vijay

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2007, 09:47:41 PM »
See baby Mike, if you dish it out, you should be willing to absorb the consequences, not cry like a baby afterwards. If you don't like being at the receiving end, then shut up and play. The days of the raj have been over for 6 decades. So, even though your mum and dad dish out romantic stories about those good old days, you need to get a Starbucks and wake up to reality. Also, pick different role models. Mike Denness is not good for you. If you need a "Mike" as a role model, go for Michael Jordan. Then, your focus will shift to improving your game, as opposed to worrying about the different ways that the Indians make you cry.   

Beamers must be punished with ban

By Mike Atherton, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 11:53pm BST 04/08/2007

On Thursday, refreshed in body and mind, India and England will square up again at the Oval. It is difficult to envisage any changes being made to either line-up: winning teams tend not to be tinkered with, and England played well enough in spurts for Peter Moores to give his 11 a chance of redemption. One name, though, should be missing from the scorecard, that of Shanthakumaran Sreesanth. Not to save the printing industry some ink, but to send out the message that the beamer has no place in cricket.

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pipsqueak

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2007, 01:47:01 AM »
this is what our dear Atherton had to say about Brett Lee's beamers. now, his story about SG asking him to carry his sweater sounds very convincing, doesn't it?  ;D

But it's not only Australians who're willing to stand as defence witnesses for Lee. Former England captain -- and frequent Aussie bunny -- Michael Atherton weighed in with these observations in The Sunday Telegraph: "His visible embarrassment and immediate fulsome apology convinces me that Lee's beamers are unintentional, although other international bowlers doubt that such a quality performer can be so far out of kilter. The other reason for giving Lee the benefit of the doubt is that he is such a demonstrably decent fellow."

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/233826.html
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fineleg

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2007, 01:57:02 AM »
this is what our dear Atherton had to say about Brett Lee's beamers. now, his story about SG asking him to carry his sweater sounds very convincing, doesn't it?  ;D

But it's not only Australians who're willing to stand as defence witnesses for Lee. Former England captain -- and frequent Aussie bunny -- Michael Atherton weighed in with these observations in The Sunday Telegraph: "His visible embarrassment and immediate fulsome apology convinces me that Lee's beamers are unintentional, although other international bowlers doubt that such a quality performer can be so far out of kilter. The other reason for giving Lee the benefit of the doubt is that he is such a demonstrably decent fellow."

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/233826.html



Good find.
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sgusa

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2007, 02:18:56 AM »
Now I know why I get banend from the DG. Must be my beamer !  :icon_jokercolor:

1 data point <> trend!!


I went to Grad School  :icon_jokercolor: :glasses3:

Good.. now start applying what you learnt

Academic Phrases and Meanings: The following list of phrases and their definitions might help you understand the mysterious language of science and medicine. These special phrases are also applicable to anyone working on a Ph.D. dissertation or academic paper anywhere!

"It has long been known"... I didn't look up the original reference.

"A definite trend is evident"... These data are practically meaningless.

"While it has not been possible to provide definite answers to the questions"... An unsuccessful experiment, but I still hope to get it published.

"Three of the samples were chosen for detailed study"... The other results didn't make any sense.

"Typical results are shown"... This is the prettiest graph.

"These results will be in a subsequent report"... I might get around to this sometime, if pushed/funded.

"In my experience"... once

"In case after case"... twice

"In a series of cases"... thrice

"It is believed that"... I think.

"It is generally believed that"... A couple of others think so, too.

"Correct within an order of magnitude"... Wrong.

"According to statistical analysis"... Rumor has it.

"A statistically oriented projection of the significance of these findings"... A wild guess.


"A careful analysis of obtainable data"... Three pages of notes were obliterated when I knocked over a glass of pop.

"It is clear that much additional work will be required before a complete understanding of this phenomenon occurs"... I don't understand it.

"After additional study by my colleagues"... They don't understand it either.

"Thanks are due to Joe Blotz for assistance with the experiment and to Cindy Adams for valuable discussions"... Mr. Blotz did the work and Ms. Adams explained to me what it meant.

"A highly significant area for exploratory study"... A totally useless topic selected by my committee.

"It is hoped that this study will stimulate further investigation in this field"... I quit.

EDIT: http://www.wilk4.com/humor/humorm134.htm
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 03:10:24 AM by sgusa »
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kingcool1432

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2007, 02:26:36 AM »
Now I know why I get banend from the DG. Must be my beamer !  :icon_jokercolor:
1 data point <> trend!!

I went to Grad School  :icon_jokercolor: :glasses3:
Good.. now start applying what you learnt
Academic Phrases and Meanings: The following list of phrases and their definitions might help you understand the mysterious language of science and medicine. These special phrases are also applicable to anyone working on a Ph.D. dissertation or academic paper anywhere!

"It has long been known"... I didn't look up the original reference.

"A definite trend is evident"... These data are practically meaningless.

"While it has not been possible to provide definite answers to the questions"... An unsuccessful experiment, but I still hope to get it published.

"Three of the samples were chosen for detailed study"... The other results didn't make any sense.

"Typical results are shown"... This is the prettiest graph.

"These results will be in a subsequent report"... I might get around to this sometime, if pushed/funded.

"In my experience"... once

"In case after case"... twice

"In a series of cases"... thrice

"It is believed that"... I think.

"It is generally believed that"... A couple of others think so, too.

"Correct within an order of magnitude"... Wrong.

"According to statistical analysis"... Rumor has it.

"A statistically oriented projection of the significance of these findings"... A wild guess.


"A careful analysis of obtainable data"... Three pages of notes were obliterated when I knocked over a glass of pop.

"It is clear that much additional work will be required before a complete understanding of this phenomenon occurs"... I don't understand it.

"After additional study by my colleagues"... They don't understand it either.

"Thanks are due to Joe Blotz for assistance with the experiment and to Cindy Adams for valuable discussions"... Mr. Blotz did the work and Ms. Adams explained to me what it meant.

"A highly significant area for exploratory study"... A totally useless topic selected by my committee.

"It is hoped that this study will stimulate further investigation in this field"... I quit.


sgusa , do post the source when you are posting other people's work here. We dont want copyright issues later on. I distinctly rememver reading this elsewhere. :P  ::Whip::
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pipsqueak

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2007, 02:27:05 AM »
how was Lee any different from Sreesanth here? i don't see even an exaggerated apology. trust cricinfo to carry this Atherton article. i hope we play Sreesanth in the third test just because of all this drama.

[youtube=425,350]UhwkCj6mIBA[/youtube]
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sgusa

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2007, 03:11:46 AM »


sgusa , do post the source when you are posting other people's work here. We dont want copyright issues later on. I distinctly rememver reading this elsewhere. :P  ::Whip::

:D Sorry, was in the middle of making a zuchini and spring onion fritata for dinner. Edited the post with the ref :)
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ganavk

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2007, 03:59:49 AM »
how was Lee any different from Sreesanth here? i don't see even an exaggerated apology. trust cricinfo to carry this Atherton article. i hope we play Sreesanth in the third test just because of all this drama.

[youtube=425,350]UhwkCj6mIBA[/youtube]
Nothing to do with Cricinfo. Original article is from Sunday Telegraph. Why blame Cricinfo for everything ?
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pipsqueak

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2007, 04:07:45 AM »
how was Lee any different from Sreesanth here? i don't see even an exaggerated apology. trust cricinfo to carry this Atherton article. i hope we play Sreesanth in the third test just because of all this drama.

[youtube=425,350]UhwkCj6mIBA[/youtube]
Nothing to do with Cricinfo. Original article is from Sunday Telegraph. Why blame Cricinfo for everything ?

i know that it is from Telegraph - check my post for the link. i am amused that cricinfo featured this on their front page. nah, not for *everything* but certain things are hard to miss.

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toney

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2007, 05:50:16 AM »
I certainly understand where Atherton is coming from. He found it difficult to negotiate normal short deliveries from Donald etc, so think of his fear when getting a beamer.

Pip,
I agree with you that if SS is guilty, so are the rest including Lee even though he too was having a below par start to that spell. But you should also understand that Atherton has to sound indignant at something Indian after the defeat. No point showering praises on them especially after the JB incident.

Why the eff is no one making an issue about the connection b/w JBs and swing/ball tampering? JBs are just like lozenges when it comes to managing the ball. Or has everyone accepted ball tampering just as sledging (verbal abuse) is accepted? IMO, we should suggest to Atherton that his next "indignant" piece should be about 'em JBs. I don't think it was Prior/Cook who threw them around. ZK actually forgot to empty his pockets when he came out to bat. And of course, it makes perfect sense. After all, ZK is from the 3rd world and people from there usually have holes in their pockets.
PS: Athers can ask his journo friends for more details on 3rd World behavior.
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pipsqueak

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2007, 06:06:23 AM »
here's some dirt i dug up on Atherton - i am not saying that this disqualifies him from having an opinion on the current affair. again, i find cricinfo's take on it very interesting. i don't think SRT's and Atherton's incidents are exactly comparable.

http://content-www.cricinfo.com/columns/content/story/143193.html

1994

The dirt in the pocket affair

Andrew Miller

September 11, 2004

It seems extraordinary to recall now, given all the seismic scandals that have clawed away at the integrity of cricket over the past decade, but at the start of the 1990s, there was no issue more emotive than ball-tampering. Much of the resentment stemmed from a them-and-us culture. From Imran Khan's admission that he used to gouge the ball with bottle-tops, to the suspicion that surrounded Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram's unplayable spells on Pakistan's fractious tour in 1992, the unspoken implication was that an England player would never stoop so low.

So when the England captain, of all people, was caught on camera at Lord's, of all places, manipulating the ball in a distinctly fishy manner, the pictures were flashed around the world in an instant. The British press were caught on the hop by what they saw, and exploded in a frenzy of righteous indignation, the like of which had not been seen since Mike Gatting's finger-jabbing altercation with umpire Shakoor Rana at Faisalabad in 1987-88. And barely a year after assuming the England captaincy at the tender age of 25, Michael Atherton found himself being crushed by the weight of the moral majority.

The biggest travesty was the timing of the furore - it was not just any old match that became so rudely interrupted. After 29 years of exile, South Africa were back playing Test cricket in England, with Nelson Mandela newly elected in the country's first free presidential elections, and though they had played several matches in the intervening period, to step out at Lord's was the ultimate proof that they had, at last, been fully re-integrated.

Riding a tide of emotion, South Africa made a rip-roaring start to the match as well. Kepler Wessels scored a typically nuggetty century to guide them to 357 in their first innings, and by the time England had been bundled out for 180 in reply, the game was all but sewn up. Matters came to a head shortly before tea on the third day, although the England team didn't think much of it at the time. As Graham Gooch passed word of the simmering row through to his captain, he added: "It must be their ball, because ours is doing **** all!"

That evening, Atherton himself recorded his version of events, as they had unfolded, in his typically matter-of-fact diary. "Hot and humid day. Gough is getting some reverse-swing and tells [mid-on and mid-off] to make sure we keep our sweaty hands off the rough side of the ball. Sals [Ian Salisbury] rubs his hands in the footholds of an old pitch on the grandstand side and I put some dust in my pocket from a used pitch on the Tavern side. I use the dust to keep my hands and the ball dry three or four times."

To this day, it is unclear quite what Atherton was playing at, or whether, indeed, he was contravening the rulebook, which was suitably ambiguous. Law 42.5 states: "No-one shall rub the ball on the ground, or use any artificial substance, or take any other action to alter the condition of the ball," and seeing as dust is neither artificial, nor in this particular case, on the ground, the only issue at stake was Part No. 3. And it was on that point that opinions differed wildly.

Atherton's defence - and he had a case regardless of the incriminating footage - was that he was not seeking to alter the condition of the dry and roughed-up ball, but maintain the condition it had already reached. Unfortunately that was not the story he told to Peter Burge, the fearsome former Australian batsman turned match referee, who presided over that evening's hearing. By his own admission, Atherton was called before the headmaster ... and panicked. When asked why he had been caught with dirt in his pocket, he now claimed that it had been specifically to dry his sweaty hands.

That excuse differed significantly from the line Atherton had spun to the England management of Keith Fletcher and Ray Illingworth, and Burge was understandably livid. Had he known the true intention of the dirt, Burge later said, he would have suspended Atherton for two matches, and in all probability brought about an early end to his tenure as captain. Meanwhile, back at the cricket, South Africa completed an historic 356-run victory with a day to spare. But the result was entirely lost in the melee.

"Melee", however, was not a strong enough not the word for the shambles that followed. A press conference was arranged in a hellishly airless cupboard, somewhere in the bowels of the pavilion, where Atherton was fed to the lions. Sitting alongside him was Illingworth, who duly announced that he was fining Atherton £2000 - half for using dirt to dry his fingers, and half for lying to the match referee - and Jonathan Agnew, the BBC cricket correspondent, who led the interrogation and unwittingly became the second villain of the piece, when it transpired that the entire sordid affair had been broadcast live on Sunday Grandstand, without anyone's knowledge.

Agnew spent half the session leaning across Atherton to record Illingworth's opinions, and as a result of his unwitting live performance, he became the leading voice in the "Atherton Out" campaign that followed. As Aggers himself later wrote, he was only going by his own evaluations of the situation, adding that had he been caught in a similar position, he would have resigned on the spot.

Atherton, however, was made of sterner stuff, and was determined to ride out the storm - even though the idea of being front-page news was absolute anathema to such an intensely private man. As the moral posturing continued, Atherton fled to the Lake District in an attempt to collect his thoughts, only to dart back to Cheshire - and his team-mate Gehan Mendis's flat - when someone in the hotel shopped him to the press.

Atherton was adamant that he had been a fool, not a cheat, and though the logical course of action would have been to resign and return to the job at a later date when the furore had blown over, that was never the Atherton way, in life or at the crease. And perversely, his stubborness endeared him to his public, not least at Headingley for the second Test when, under the most intense scrutiny, he knuckled down to score his second 99 in consecutive summers - if he'd been seeking the sympathy vote, he couldn't have planned it better.

There was one last twist to Atherton's summer, and it came at The Oval in the final Test, when Burge took his opportunity to exact his revenge. Facing up to Fanie de Villiers, Atherton was nailed first ball of the innings, not for the last time. However, there was a clear inside-edge, and as he trudged off the pitch, Atherton shook his head in disappointment. That was ample dissent for Burge, who was watching his every movement like a hawk. The upshot was a fine of 50% of his match fee, and at a dinner party that evening, Atherton completed his day by escaping over the rooftops of Piccadilly to avoid the press yet again.

It is a measure of how times have changed that eight years later, when Sachin Tendulkar was caught and punished for a similar offence in a Test against South Africa, it was not the player but the match referee (Mike Denness) who bore the brunt of the media's wrath, and ultimately caused a row that threatened to divide the world game in two. That hardly condones Atherton's actions, but it does perhaps put them into context.

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pipsqueak

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2007, 06:18:48 AM »
I certainly understand where Atherton is coming from. He found it difficult to negotiate normal short deliveries from Donald etc, so think of his fear when getting a beamer.

Pip,
I agree with you that if SS is guilty, so are the rest including Lee even though he too was having a below par start to that spell. But you should also understand that Atherton has to sound indignant at something Indian after the defeat. No point showering praises on them especially after the JB incident.

Why the eff is no one making an issue about the connection b/w JBs and swing/ball tampering? JBs are just like lozenges when it comes to managing the ball. Or has everyone accepted ball tampering just as sledging (verbal abuse) is accepted? IMO, we should suggest to Atherton that his next "indignant" piece should be about 'em JBs. I don't think it was Prior/Cook who threw them around. ZK actually forgot to empty his pockets when he came out to bat. And of course, it makes perfect sense. After all, ZK is from the 3rd world and people from there usually have holes in their pockets.
PS: Athers can ask his journo friends for more details on 3rd World behavior.

toney, i realize that they have no choice but try to paint sreesanth guilty, all in an effort towards "mental disintegration". after-all, they need to win the next one. i hope sreesanth does play in the third test. esp. given that bose/i sharma haven't made a clear-cut case for themselves. playing two spinners would be foolhardy.
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gouravk

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2007, 07:34:02 AM »
sreesanth will take 10 wickets at the oval ... possibly 7 in an innings.
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keep-it-cool

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2007, 07:40:36 AM »
There is no way India should drop SS ...unless he is injured.
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ruchir

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2007, 02:26:14 PM »
Prem digs into Atherton, regarding SS beamer. At the end, he has a clip of Atherton hopping and skipping to Donald's bouncers. Good read.

http://www.prempanicker.com/index.php?/site/heads_up/
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feverpitch

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2007, 03:00:06 PM »
So Prem is still visiting this DG, eh?
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toney

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2007, 03:55:19 PM »
Prem digs into Atherton, regarding SS beamer. At the end, he has a clip of Atherton hopping and skipping to Donald's bouncers. Good read.

http://www.prempanicker.com/index.php?/site/heads_up/

PP is using my ideas!!! I may know what his ID is on this DG ;D
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ruchir

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2007, 06:48:21 PM »
So Prem is still visiting this DG, eh?

Why do you ask? You feeling lonely, eh?
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kban1

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2007, 07:29:47 PM »
Looking at Lee's beamer again, that delivery was a lot closer to causing the batsman harm than the one SS bowled to KP.

Interesting how MA defends Lee and is all over SS - Hmmm!!
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2007, 09:23:39 PM »
Looking at Lee's beamer again, that delivery was a lot closer to causing the batsman harm than the one SS bowled to KP.

Interesting how MA defends Lee and is all over SS - Hmmm!!

i think MA is comparing the characters of SS and BL in assessing whether the delivery was intentional or not. sounds stupid to me....

from both replays i feel that both were unintentional - ie both slipped. SS was acting shady so its casts doubts, while everyone makes BL come off like some wonderfully nice guy who plays the game fair etc. fact is this beamer (in 2005) was the first of many (at least 4 i can remember) - at that time maybe MA felt he could give BL the benefit of the doubt. i dont know why this article on SS - doesnt seem to be any proof except for the fact that SS overstepped by 2 feet to bowl a bouncer on purpose, later on. why wouldnt SS do that again instead of hurling a beamer and knowing he would get reprimanded by the umpire?

i dont like the way nasser hussain and MA now cast aspersions on SS' character "he is an unstable, mentally unsound person. should not be playing in this state of mind" etc. it sounds very cheap coming from them. where is the proof? cmon, they have state of the art facilities w/ the production crew. do some analysis, zoom in on SS' hand, you have Holding on board too to talk from experience. show that he released a beamer on purpose instead of writing crass articles like this.

SS is a bit of a kid. he changes his action around, talks to himself (which is actually a motivational technique he uses before every single ball. give him some credit, he is a masters' student in psychology). where is the reason to make him look like he should be in an asylum? it is just cheap putting-down tactics to me.
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WicketView

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2007, 09:25:27 PM »
Does anyone remember which particular match featured the Lee beamer to Trescothick? I think it was around the time of the Ashes series that England won, but I can't recall which match it was. I think his hypocrisy might have something to do with England not losing to un-fancied opponents on home soil then , certainly not unfancied. Where as in this case, they have lost   to their opponents, poor travelers  that they may be. And the muck, or perhaps more appropriately the jelly bean is on their face, with no excuses. Hence the difference in opinion. Any look at the two videos posted remove any doubts about Lee's apology being more sincere, etc.


That said, his suggestion has its, or actually would have its  merits, if his particular reference to SS is replaced by a reference to all bowlers.  As we were discussing on a different thread, it is hard to buy into this 'unintentional'  crap from any of these guys. And honestly speaking, what difference does it make? The batsman would be hurt just as badly as he would if it had been intentional. So, I think it is really time to decide on one of two options:
(a) Either allow beamers, meaning one would have to tell the batsmen to be able to take care of them.
or
(b)Make the beamer completely unacceptable. And ban the offending bowler for a match or two irrespective of intent, with multiple offences treated more harshly.

The problem with bowling beamers is no different than dangerous driving of a beamer :)
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sudzz

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Re: Beamers must be punished with ban - A
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2007, 06:24:44 AM »
If any of you has seen indian news channels they have selectively picked up A's request to exclude SS from the team and no mention about his double standards.

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