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[avinashgodkhindi]

Really was our test team stronger before all these changes, we are not doing too well. Opinions pls

[cricinfo]

as i posted in another thread...according to chappell philosophy - keeping in mind long term future of indian cricket(minimum 2007 WC) ,a one off test result does not have any significance ...so we stick to the mantra of young guns and commitment to excellence irresepective of one lose here and there

[feverpitch]

is cricinfo our fineleg in disguise? your syntax is pretty similar!

lol!

dex, can u look up the ip addresses?

[cricinfo]

whoever this fineleg is ...is he banned or something ? why he has to come in disguise ?...just curious 

[OldPal]

Cricinfo ..
Please post what you strongly feel and believe  ..
Ignore the name calling's

[fineleg]

is cricinfo our fineleg in disguise? your syntax is pretty similar!

lol!

dex, can u look up the ip addresses?

fever - u wont miss a chance to doubt me, eh?
I am not cricinfo

[fineleg]

whoever this fineleg is ...is he banned or something ? why he has to come in disguise ?...just curious 

cricinfo,
hello. i am that fineleg that the great Mr.fever is referring to.
I am not banned or anything (though fever's prime goal is that - u shud understand this),
 neverthless hello to u, since this is my first post to u.

[cricinfo]

Hello Fineleg...nice to know you !

btw Mr pankaj_t , please read before posting ...i didnt call names ....someone suggested i am not who i am claiming to be....

[fineleg]

Hello Fineleg...nice to know you !

btw Mr pankaj_t , please read before posting ...i didnt call names ....someone suggested i am not who i am claiming to be....

pankaj meant - please ignore fever's name calling antics...that is his hobby...so just ignore and talk cricket irrespective of what he says.

[suraj]

well one day team is definitely better after the changes

Test team is not holding well at all

[sudzz]

Boss the one day team is also not all that fine...if we were up against a genuine batting line up that was in form we would know the reality (I suspect we will find it out in this series itself). Our bowling is leaking runs by the buckets. There are only three batsmen that are scoring consistently in ODI's RD, Yuvi and SRT (dhoni and ip are there but I wont count them as a part of the front line as they can and are allowed to fail ocassionally).

The much vaunted younger brigade is too raw for us to place complete faith in them. There is still too much of distraction and world cup 2007 seems rather far away.

I have said this before and will reiterate GC is making changes for changes sake even he does not know what results will this bring in.

Lets compare JW's reign with GC's we will realise the changes impacted by JW were gradual and almost all changes bore results. Whats happening here...show me one change that is a genuine GC change that is working (please dont say IP or Dhoni both were there before GC came on the scene).

[avinashgodkhindi]

I am now not very sure if the board and selectors should agree with GC on every move of his. he has shown he is human and can err, like the guardian interview and worse the finger episode.

[suraj]

So u think our fielding has improved, declined or remained the same?? And if it has improved again- do we say tht the fielders improved on their own and GC had nothing to do with it?

And do u think Yuvi was performing better before GC came into the picture? And if he is now, do we again say (despite Yuvi himself giving credit to GC) tht he did it himself and GC didn't help??

Wht abt our ability to chase totals recently and someytimes with like 5-8 wickets to spare??

And overall the recent spate of wins- we have done it before but our team was in shambles when we lost to Pak, didn't perform well in SL and below par in Zim (when GC just took over)

definitely we have rebuilt and rebuilt well- IMO

[justforkix]

as i posted in another thread...according to chappell philosophy - keeping in mind long term future of indian cricket(minimum 2007 WC) ,a one off test result does not have any significance ...so we stick to the mantra of young guns and commitment to excellence irresepective of one lose here and there

unfortunately these one off tests are happening with increasing regularity !!!

[gouravk]

Well lets see how today goes ...

[avinashgodkhindi]

Suraj I don't mean to take away all credit from GC for some of the things that have improved. But I was specifically talking of changes to the teeam in terms of players. This team has about 5-6 players wo would not have been in the 15 6 months ago ( PC,VRV,SS,SR, RPS,WJ) and are we really doing the right thing throwing in so many yungsters. WJ is no more a youngster 28 and I have always felt he is true class act, check out thee previous posts in the old blog. I and Sahir were his strongest supporters. So I am wondering if all these changes to the teeam are reeally that good or are theey going to breed insecurity in senior players like VVS, AK,SRT etc specially as thee selectors continously keep saying that we will focus on youth. plus thee notion of GC that the teams average age should 23-24 is BS in my opinion. I think thee best 11 should be picked thats it.

[gouravk]

all the youngsters are doing wel arent they ?

[aggarwald]

as i posted in another thread...according to chappell philosophy - keeping in mind long term future of indian cricket(minimum 2007 WC) ,a one off test result does not have any significance ...so we stick to the mantra of young guns and commitment to excellence irresepective of one lose here and there

Completely agreed. And I don't agree with India's test ranking of 2 earlier - it wasn't because of us playing exceptionally well but we were a mediocre side and others were playiing even worse. Now in the last 2-3 years, other teams have caught up and its matter of time before we go to 4th or 5th for a few years before we become No.1 for good (hopefully GC's vision will start paying off).

[avinashgodkhindi]

But what is its effeect on thee seniors. We expect 60% of the load to be taken up by seniors and help the juniors grow. But the focus on youth is affecting the seniors. It is ok to try to change ppl's attitude but not at this pace and when it is affecting the seniors. And today we say the juniors are doing well bcoz we indians tend to give a big buffer to them, but wait for anotheer one year and if they don't improve some 20-30%, get injured, get exposed bcoz international teams analyize the youngsters weaknesses then thee same ppl will start criticizing them right, left and centre

[gouravk]

if the arrival of youngsters is being a problem for the seniors the seniors need to be shoved out IMO

[cricinfo]

GC's changes are working great indeed ...seems we have saved the test match whereas many predicted in this forum that we will loose the match, good work GC , keep it up .

[justforkix]

And now we are going for the WIN....

[cricinfo]

yepp JFK....if the way guys are playing we can win...any idea how many overs today to be bowled is it same 90 ?

[toney]

In a test where Eng dominated for 3 days, India ended up causing a few heart aches for Freddie and company. This, when chasing a total in excess of 360.
What it did was ensure that Eng wont declare unless the India victory chance is nil. IMO, this was a calculated move. After all, how realistic is chasing a target at 10 an over for over 16 overs in tests where there are no fielding restrictions orlimited uotas for bowlers?

India showed refreshing attitude and belief that they can rattle Eng, who were in a relative position of strength. If everything that India does badly is attributed to GC, why doent we start giving credit to GC for this India which has shown attitude/spunk, something that was lacking in the previous season owing the the skipper being a non performing person making up the numbers and a coach, who in his attempt to go with the tide failed miserably to make his voice heard.?

[dhruvdeepak]

well this is what cricket is about- glad to see india playing with the attitude they displayed today.
great show, and a much enjoyed drawn Test match.

[sudzz]

In a test where Eng dominated for 3 days, India ended up causing a few heart aches for Freddie and company. This, when chasing a total in excess of 360.
What it did was ensure that Eng wont declare unless the India victory chance is nil. IMO, this was a calculated move. After all, how realistic is chasing a target at 10 an over for over 16 overs in tests where there are no fielding restrictions orlimited uotas for bowlers?

India showed refreshing attitude and belief that they can rattle Eng, who were in a relative position of strength. If everything that India does badly is attributed to GC, why doent we start giving credit to GC for this India which has shown attitude/spunk, something that was lacking in the previous season owing the the skipper being a non performing person making up the numbers and a coach, who in his attempt to go with the tide failed miserably to make his voice heard.?

Toney this is wonderful, first you dig a hole for yourself, then fall into it and then you dig yourself out of it by some fancy digging and in the end of it all praise the wonderful way in which you dig yourself out.

Why did the team have to chase almost 400 in the fourth inning, did we even reach close to 300 while chasing, how many wickets did we lose in the process.

Yeah we should some spunk and fight but did RD score a century, Jaffer flopped over after exactly 100 so what fight, what rattling are we talking about. If anything Duncan Fletcher would be thinking that he has where he wants for the next test.

[dhruvdeepak]

In a test where Eng dominated for 3 days, India ended up causing a few heart aches for Freddie and company. This, when chasing a total in excess of 360.
What it did was ensure that Eng wont declare unless the India victory chance is nil. IMO, this was a calculated move. After all, how realistic is chasing a target at 10 an over for over 16 overs in tests where there are no fielding restrictions orlimited uotas for bowlers?

India showed refreshing attitude and belief that they can rattle Eng, who were in a relative position of strength. If everything that India does badly is attributed to GC, why doent we start giving credit to GC for this India which has shown attitude/spunk, something that was lacking in the previous season owing the the skipper being a non performing person making up the numbers and a coach, who in his attempt to go with the tide failed miserably to make his voice heard.?

Toney this is wonderful, first you dig a hole for yourself, then fall into it and then you dig yourself out of it by some fancy digging and in the end of it all praise the wonderful way in which you dig yourself out.

Why did the team have to chase almost 400 in the fourth inning, did we even reach close to 300 while chasing, how many wickets did we lose in the process.

Yeah we should some spunk and fight but did RD score a century, Jaffer flopped over after exactly 100 so what fight, what rattling are we talking about. If anything Duncan Fletcher would be thinking that he has where he wants for the next test.

HAHAAHAH WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH
"Did RD score a 100?" is this the parameter to judge anything by?
"Jaffer flopped after scoring 100" did it occur to you that they were going for the target once all was safe?
"Did we even reach close to 300 while chasing" errr, didnt we? Look who was left in the hut, and look at the aghast look on Flintoff's face

[kban1]

I think we scored some Pysch points here in the last session.

Good thinking on India's part --credit is due to RD & GC for taking a good decision to go for the win.

We still have a few areas to improve on but 3 big gains:

1) WJ played 2 very good knocks
2) Kaif played a crucial knock which will do his confidence a world of good
3) SRT played with a youthful abandon which has been missing for a while  --hope he builds on that.

[toney]

In a test where Eng dominated for 3 days, India ended up causing a few heart aches for Freddie and company. This, when chasing a total in excess of 360.
What it did was ensure that Eng wont declare unless the India victory chance is nil. IMO, this was a calculated move. After all, how realistic is chasing a target at 10 an over for over 16 overs in tests where there are no fielding restrictions orlimited uotas for bowlers?

India showed refreshing attitude and belief that they can rattle Eng, who were in a relative position of strength. If everything that India does badly is attributed to GC, why doent we start giving credit to GC for this India which has shown attitude/spunk, something that was lacking in the previous season owing the the skipper being a non performing person making up the numbers and a coach, who in his attempt to go with the tide failed miserably to make his voice heard.?

Toney this is wonderful, first you dig a hole for yourself, then fall into it and then you dig yourself out of it by some fancy digging and in the end of it all praise the wonderful way in which you dig yourself out.

Why did the team have to chase almost 400 in the fourth inning, did we even reach close to 300 while chasing, how many wickets did we lose in the process.

Yeah we should some spunk and fight but did RD score a century, Jaffer flopped over after exactly 100 so what fight, what rattling are we talking about. If anything Duncan Fletcher would be thinking that he has where he wants for the next test.

HAHAAHAH WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH
"Did RD score a 100?" is this the parameter to judge anything by?
"Jaffer flopped after scoring 100" did it occur to you that they were going for the target once all was safe?
"Did we even reach close to 300 while chasing" errr, didnt we? Look who was left in the hut, and look at the aghast look on Flintoff's face

Dhruv,
For that, everyone has to watch the game with the opinion that the team is still ours.

KBan, good point about SRT's youthful exuberance, it seemed a bit surreal to me. But nice start to a Sunday morn in my part of the world.

[avinashgodkhindi]

Why did we get into a situation on indian tracks against a depleted english side where we had to save the test. I wish we had batted better and specially got those last two 1st innings english wickets a little earlier may be within 300. I am totally not confident that all these wholesale changes are necessary

[justforkix]

Toney this is wonderful, first you dig a hole for yourself, then fall into it and then you dig yourself out of it by some fancy digging and in the end of it all praise the wonderful way in which you dig yourself out.

Why did the team have to chase almost 400 in the fourth inning, did we even reach close to 300 while chasing, how many wickets did we lose in the process.

Yeah we should some spunk and fight but did RD score a century, Jaffer flopped over after exactly 100 so what fight, what rattling are we talking about. If anything Duncan Fletcher would be thinking that he has where he wants for the next test.

This is as absurd a post as the ones by jks61, Teddy and CLR about Kaif not being test class !!!!

Of course, team management including GC deserves criticism for letting the tail wag, out poor batting on day 3, poor bowling on day 4. AT the same time, they deserve credit for the brilliant tactic on day 5. First save the test match, then try to win by sending in IP, MSD, so that we can shut shop if wickets fall. Low Risk, High Gain tactic.

Also, if anything, it just proves that SRT has not lost any of his old touch. He always says he plays according to the needs of the team. He can become the SRT of old whenever he wants to 

All you had to do was look at the faces of Flintoff and Fletcher to realize that they were rattled 

kban - totally agree on SRT's youthful abandon. Great to watch.

[gouravk]

Also while it is true we let england get a score way more than we shud have in the first inns we cant deny a great inns by colly.

[Sahir]

I think we scored some Pysch points here in the last session.

Good thinking on India's part --credit is due to RD & GC for taking a good decision to go for the win.

We still have a few areas to improve on but 3 big gains:

1) WJ played 2 very good knocks
2) Kaif played a crucial knock which will do his confidence a world of good
3) SRT played with a youthful abandon which has been missing for a while  --hope he builds on that.

Almost stole the thoughts right out of my head...

[Aloo Kashmiri Ul Haq]

the ball wasn't swinging appreciably, nor was panesar top class, why do we still think that jaffer played a great knock, sure the guy did his thing, but so did devang *hi, SS das, Ramesh, etc when they played in similar conditions. Let's see how Dravid and company perform in the west indies and then we should opinionate on GC's startegies.

A performance that you didn't mention kban was that of Sreesanth.

[kban1]

desi yankee:

True, Sreesanth showed some potential for being a good bowler at the top level.

[Cover Point]

In a test where Eng dominated for 3 days, India ended up causing a few heart aches for Freddie and company. This, when chasing a total in excess of 360.
What it did was ensure that Eng wont declare unless the India victory chance is nil. IMO, this was a calculated move. After all, how realistic is chasing a target at 10 an over for over 16 overs in tests where there are no fielding restrictions orlimited uotas for bowlers?

India showed refreshing attitude and belief that they can rattle Eng, who were in a relative position of strength. If everything that India does badly is attributed to GC, why doent we start giving credit to GC for this India which has shown attitude/spunk, something that was lacking in the previous season owing the the skipper being a non performing person making up the numbers and a coach, who in his attempt to go with the tide failed miserably to make his voice heard.?

Toney this is wonderful, first you dig a hole for yourself, then fall into it and then you dig yourself out of it by some fancy digging and in the end of it all praise the wonderful way in which you dig yourself out.

Why did the team have to chase almost 400 in the fourth inning, did we even reach close to 300 while chasing, how many wickets did we lose in the process.

Yeah we should some spunk and fight but did RD score a century, Jaffer flopped over after exactly 100 so what fight, what rattling are we talking about. If anything Duncan Fletcher would be thinking that he has where he wants for the next test.

HAHAAHAH WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH
"Did RD score a 100?" is this the parameter to judge anything by?
"Jaffer flopped after scoring 100" did it occur to you that they were going for the target once all was safe?
"Did we even reach close to 300 while chasing" errr, didnt we? Look who was left in the hut, and look at the aghast look on Flintoff's face

Dhruv,
For that, everyone has to watch the game with the opinion that the team is still ours.

This is what I have been harping in the other threads for which Dex attacked me. I am happy to criticize the team when they need to be criticized. I am happy to hold the captain or coach reponsible for the results but also give credit where it is due.

RD did not score a 100. Why did we not get to 300. etc etc ... its just these people who would have been happier had India lost trying for the impossible so that they could then hang GC/RD for the results! Never mind that we are seeing progress from where we were. But they have a single minded agenda to bring the Team and RD/GC down so nothing else matters!

[justforkix]

This is what I have been harping in the other threads for which Dex attacked me. I am happy to criticize the team when they need to be criticized. I am happy to hold the captain or coach reponsible for the results but also give credit where it is due.

RD did not score a 100. Why did we not get to 300. etc etc ... its just these people who would have been happier had India lost trying for the impossible so that they could then hang GC/RD for the results! Never mind that we are seeing progress from where we were. But they have a single minded agenda to bring the Team and RD/GC down so nothing else matters!

It is somewhat similar to your one point agenda to bring down SG/JW down wherever possible by the most illogical comparison of this Nagpur test and last year's Bangalore test....

[Cover Point]

It is somewhat similar to your one point agenda to bring down SG/JW down wherever possible by the most illogical comparison of this Nagpur test and last year's Bangalore test....

One, That comparison isnt that illogical. India played 90 overs ... were chasing about the same amount of runs .... 4th inning etc etc. Difference is India did much better here.

And I had put that example to show the hypocricy of some of the posters not to bring SG/JW down. To propose that I want to bring JW down is preposterous. I have wanted SG out of the team BECAUSE he did NOT score! He was bad for Team India's success! I dont make it about one player and one player only!

[justforkix]

One, That comparison isnt that illogical. India played 90 overs ... were chasing about the same amount of runs .... 4th inning etc etc. Difference is India did much better here.

If that is what you mean by very similar conditions, then  Because, the comparison ends right there. Different pitch conditions (Bangalore pitch offering way more assistance to spinners), Pak had better spinners to exploit that pitch (Afridi, kaneria and Arshad Khan are 100X better than Blackwell and Ponty). Check my post in that thread for further details. Also, let me know if you watched the both the Bangalore test and Nagpur test....

[pradeepk454]

Pakistan had better spinner . A good spinner is one who troubles the batsmen the most and then takes his wicket. Kaneria ,for all I have seen has never managed  a 5 wicket haul without conceding a minimum of 100 runs . The less said the better abt Afridi and Arshad khan whereas England had high quality seam back-ups in Hoggard, Harmison and  Flintoff and a pitch which was abrasive and assisted reverse swing.