Print

after the england tour

after the pak series at home

after the aussie tour 2008

later than this

Please post once and this message will disappear! Introduce yourself, say hello, jump into a discussion...

[inoc]

I ask this question now because I feel one of the instances is near at hand.

1.   after the England series :  this is where it all started and this is where it ends. A fairy tale and in a situation where he carries on with his performance so far and may be a match winning innings or two in the remaining matches can inspire a retirement at the top of his game at his own volition. A situation not to be scorned at.

2.   retire after the pak tour in India. He will have a few ODIs against the aussies at home and a full series against pak (ODIs and tests) and retire at home in front of his own crowd.

3.   have one last go at Australia. I personally don’t see this happening as I am sure he will by then be replaced by a newrathi but performances herewith can ensure such a trip.

4.   in my opinion he has to choose a retirement date by this time so future retirement dates are superfluous

please if you can drop a note regarding your choice.

[poondu]

1. After the England Tour - IMO, Always better to finish on a high.

[sgusa]

Last year 

[schumi]

As long as he is consistently able to score runs for the team and win matches, its his choice. For that matter that is the same for AK, SRT, RD, VVS as well.

[poondu]

As long as he is consistently able to score runs for the team and win matches, its his choice.

It is not his choice when he doesn't score runs. How will he know he will be able to consistently score runs ?

[pipsqueak]

why should SG retire? 

[schumi]

As long as he is consistently able to score runs for the team and win matches, its his choice.

It is not his choice when he doesn't score runs. How will he know he will be able to consistently score runs ?

Poondu, I will repeat,

As long as he is consistently able to
a. Score runs AND
b. Win Matches for the team
THEN
ITS HIS CHOICE.

On the contrary,
If he is not able to
a. consistenly score runs
b. win matches for the team

THEN
he will be dropped. Again this is the same for AK, SRT, RD

Would it not be ?

[fineleg]

Last year 

What about the year before that?

[inoc]

poondu

as i posted there is merit in that. i personally voted for that (i can vote cant i on my poll?)

sgusa/fineleg

do you realise that you are the guys who live in the past now.
an assertion that you keep dumping on other guys here.
wake up. those days are gone and wont happen now.

schumi

of course it is his decision based on his performance and how he feels about it. my feeling is that he will continue ( as above that is not what i feel he should do) whether that is a good decision or not  only time will tell. he has proven me and others wrong before and now.
if he doesnt perform well he will be dropped and then the question of retirement does not arise.

pip
he will have to at some point

[pipsqueak]

pip
he will have to at some point

everyone has to retire - why single out SG and ponder about him? 

[poondu]

Kban, Schumi,

IMO it will be a great call by SG (same for SRT too) if he retires after this series.  When I think of Sampras and Sunny G, the first thing that comes to my mind is their well timed retirement.

[Vick]

Keeping the future and present of the team in mind, It should be after Australia series. We need to replace our middle order in next couple of years and it will be a good start if SG retures after Australia. It will give him chance to have a last go at them and after that we prolly dont have tough series for some time.

[inoc]

Keeping the future and present of the team in mind, It should be after Australia series. We need to replace our middle order in next couple of years and it will be a good start if SG retures after Australia. It will give him chance to have a last go at them and after that we prolly dont have tough series for some time.

vick

this discussion of course includes the fact that the current performance of SG will be maintained. thereby ensuring that he is picked for each of these subsequent tours. if he doesnt and gets dropped the question is moot.

my question was as you surely understood whether SG himself will carry on.

i have mentioned that he might want a last go at the aussies in the post after the poll. the question is will he want that?

the way he has proven many people, including myself wrong previously, i cant rule it out.

that in essence was the reason for this poll, to ascertain what you guys think about it?

thanks for your input.

[keep-it-cool]

I voted with the assumption that he keeps scoring well ...for, only in that case, is retirement an option. I presume that is a given for this poll, inoc?

With that in mind, I think Australian tour. I think he would want a crack at Pak ...his last test as captain against them was a disaster ...so was his last test as a batsman against them.

And, then who can resist Australia?

I think he should retire from ODIs much earlier ...in fact, the earlier the better.

[inoc]

I voted with the assumption that he keeps scoring well ...for, only in that case, is retirement an option. I presume that is a given for this poll, inoc?

With that in mind, I think Australian tour. I think he would want a crack at Pak ...his last test as captain against them was a disaster ...so was his last test as a batsman against them.

And, then who can resist Australia?

I think he should retire from ODIs much earlier ...in fact, the earlier the better.

kic

of course that is what i meant - retirement is an option only when somebody is not kicked out.

regarding the temptations of what you suggest -yes ideally he would like that but will he? will he be conservative? he has never been before - so you might win this KIC 

some of us have played our cards. lets wait and watch.

others join in.

[sudzz]

My take is as below

1. I think post the Aussie tour would be the most likely date he will choose for himself given his current form

2. But if I had the power I will have identified a replacement for him and get that person ready as early as the Pak tour

3. I would also have a frank discussion with SG (as I would have with SRT/VVS) lay down clear expectations and the role/responsibility that I would like to see him take on and also agree on a exit date (A'la McGrath. Warne, Langer etc) so that there is no succession issues.

4. The agree exit date would be adhered to by both parties irrespective of form at the point of retirement (even at retirement Warne and McGrath did take 5 fer etc) as form alone does not matter.

But none of the above will ever happen in Indian cricket and what will decide SG's exit date as it would be SRT, VVSL or RD would be the access to the nearest big record each of them is gunning for.

[broadbat]

Is he still playing? Seriously I cant see him go on for more than six months. If he is planning an Oz trip this winter he better carry more helmets than bats.

[inoc]

sudzz

good points

things also happen in indian cricket you dont bargain for - SMG retirement e.g. never say never.

broadbat

six months from now is halfway through the aussie tour in aus. do you mean to say he will be going to australia

[Prafulla]

If SG / VVS / SRT / RD etc are making runs - why should they retire. I Think, anyone of them shouls retire - when they start failing.

[schumi]

Kban, Schumi,

IMO it will be a great call by SG (same for SRT too) if he retires after this series.  When I think of Sampras and Sunny G, the first thing that comes to my mind is their well timed retirement.

Poondu, I was under the assumption that you misread my post w.r.t the choice being that of the player's when he is consistently performing and winning matches. However, like others pointed out it is always great to go out when people ask you "why ?" instead of when ?. As far as the Maharatis are concerned they have not achieved greatness as far as the team is concerned eventhough each one of them have achieved more than one personal milestone. They also know that. If we are able to win this series and beat Aus in Aus, then I am sure they will start considering retirement at some point.

[broadbat]

sudzz

good points

things also happen in indian cricket you dont bargain for - SMG retirement e.g. never say never.

broadbat

six months from now is halfway through the aussie tour in aus. do you mean to say he will be going to australia

In that case make it 5. Well I voted for after Pak Series.

[keep-it-cool]

As far as the Maharatis are concerned they have not achieved greatness as far as the team is concerned eventhough each one of them have achieved more than one personal milestone.

This is true ... consider that SRT and SG have yet to be part of a winning test squad outside the subcontinent (and lets please discount the last Zim series). Only RD, AK & VVS have experienced that in WI.

[Libran]

Last year 

What about the year before that?

You guys are missing the point...he should have retired immediately after the Lords Test of 1996 

[sudzz]

Last year 

What about the year before that?

You guys are missing the point...he should have retired immediately after the Lords Test of 1996 

Or like Freddy Truman said-his mum should've kept her legs closed 

[justforkix]

I ask this question now because I feel one of the instances is near at hand.

1.   after the England series :  this is where it all started and this is where it ends. A fairy tale and in a situation where he carries on with his performance so far and may be a match winning innings or two in the remaining matches can inspire a retirement at the top of his game at his own volition. A situation not to be scorned at.

2.   retire after the pak tour in India. He will have a few ODIs against the aussies at home and a full series against pak (ODIs and tests) and retire at home in front of his own crowd.

3.   have one last go at Australia. I personally don’t see this happening as I am sure he will by then be replaced by a newrathi but performances herewith can ensure such a trip.

4.   in my opinion he has to choose a retirement date by this time so future retirement dates are superfluous

please if you can drop a note regarding your choice.

My opinion is he should retire from ODIs and prolong his test career for a couple of more years. As long as his fighting qualities remain intact, he'll be very useful in the tests in tough overseas conditions. So, retire from ODIs at the end of the Eng series and Tests, say 2009.

[CricketvoiceMods]

The thread has been split to remove non cricketing posts that fall within the realm of trolling, flaming, baiting. Responses to such posts have also been removed.

Please engage in cricketing discussions wrt to the topic at hand. Do not repost comments similar in nature to those that have been removed -- that will be deemed actionable.

[WicketView]

What is the big deal in this question?

Like any other player, he should retire when the first of the following happen:
(a) he feels he will not be able to contribute better than others,
(b) when he does not enjoy the game any more,
(c) if he decides that even though he is better than others, he wants to retire on a high and remain in the public's good memories.

If none of the above happen before he starts playing like crap, he should be dropped.

[toney]

Inoc,
I chose option 4. SG is an asset to the team no matter what his age.

[LosingNow]

From ODIS, immediately (also applies to SRT and RD)

From Tests, when he is dropped (applies to SRT, RD and VVSL too)

[pipsqueak]

From ODIS, immediately (also applies to SRT and RD)

From Tests, when he is dropped (applies to SRT, RD and VVSL too)

for ODIs, i would wait till the Eng series is over before making the final call.

[inoc]

What is the big deal in this question?

Like any other player, he should retire when the first of the following happen:
(a) he feels he will not be able to contribute better than others,
(b) when he does not enjoy the game any more,
(c) if he decides that even though he is better than others, he wants to retire on a high and remain in the public's good memories.

If none of the above happen before he starts playing like crap, he should be dropped.

wv

a) rarely ever happens from a players point of view. if you know of some examples please share. i can bring hussain here but it was more of a (c) than (a)

b) again i cannot think of anybody in this group examples please.

c) there are some examples here. i was trying to judge whether others felt that SG should also belong to one of this group and choose his point of retirement

if you are crap and get dropped then the question of retirement does not exist.
majority of the players actually are dropped rather than being able to choose their retirement, including the likes of viv richards.


i believe (c) is the best way to go if you can. that holds true for not only SG but SRT/RD/VVS.
very few players actually retire on their own terms. if SG has to do that then when should he contemplate a retirement? - that was the question.

of course his well laid plans can be screwed at any time by the establishment as well as a few unimpressive performances.
the point is, he can hang his boots now saying that he proved most people wrong and he wants youngsters to come in. this fact has to be evaluated with respect to his own interests in proving not only the people concerned wrong but also to achieve his own set goals.

my post was intended to discuss this aspect (how and when can SG retire as (c) having completed his other goals) which i now realise was wishful thinking.

[gouravk]

i think he should take it one series at a time - not look too far ahead.

[achutank]

when should SG retire? 
hmm

till all the cliquians are converted to gangulians maybe? eh 

[fineleg]

when should SG retire? 
hmm

till all the cliquians are converted to gangulians maybe? eh 

Are u trolling dude?

(just kidding dude) - yes perhaps sg will indeed never retire.

[sudzz]

After reading some comments in this thread and even on the other on How Saching countered Ryan S, the one question that comes to mind is

Is it entirely a players responsibility to decide when he will walk away?

IMHO that given the money, the fame, the adulation that a Indian cricketer gets it is very very difficult to make a clear specific and objective decision to walk away from it all.

There are umpteen examples of even two bit cricketers who we purely lucky to play for India try and milk it even today by doing stuff like commentary, giving out opinions when none are asked for etc etc. Then we have examples of BS Chandrasekhar etc etc.

The point I'am trying to make is it is all great for us to speculate that these stalwarts need to go and I think they more than us know that their skills have diminished (its like a lion not being able hunt down a gazelle and is now feeding on a carcass of another's kill).

Therefore I guess it is more for the BCCI to sort of sit down the players and clearly specify what is the direction that the team is going to take and therefore what they expect and by when. This will give players time to plan and execute their own strategies to plot their grand exits. This no more than what any good organisation would do while getting into succession planning at senior levels, they would lay down clear understood goals and time frames for the individual to be able to make the cut or give up.

[fineleg]

After reading some comments in this thread and even on the other on How Saching countered Ryan S, the one question that comes to mind is

Is it entirely a players responsibility to decide when he will walk away?

IMHO that given the money, the fame, the adulation that a Indian cricketer gets it is very very difficult to make a clear specific and objective decision to walk away from it all.

There are umpteen examples of even two bit cricketers who we purely lucky to play for India try and milk it even today by doing stuff like commentary, giving out opinions when none are asked for etc etc. Then we have examples of BS Chandrasekhar etc etc.

The point I'am trying to make is it is all great for us to speculate that these stalwarts need to go and I think they more than us know that their skills have diminished (its like a lion not being able hunt down a gazelle and is now feeding on a carcass of another's kill).

Therefore I guess it is more for the BCCI to sort of sit down the players and clearly specify what is the direction that the team is going to take and therefore what they expect and by when. This will give players time to plan and execute their own strategies to plot their grand exits. This no more than what any good organisation would do while getting into succession planning at senior levels, they would lay down clear understood goals and time frames for the individual to be able to make the cut or give up.

If only BCCI would do this, but its BCCI!
I agree, in the best case what you say above must definitely happen. But BCCI should be converted into a professional organization first.

[achutank]

After reading some comments in this thread and even on the other on How Saching countered Ryan S, the one question that comes to mind is

Is it entirely a players responsibility to decide when he will walk away?

IMHO that given the money, the fame, the adulation that a Indian cricketer gets it is very very difficult to make a clear specific and objective decision to walk away from it all.

There are umpteen examples of even two bit cricketers who we purely lucky to play for India try and milk it even today by doing stuff like commentary, giving out opinions when none are asked for etc etc. Then we have examples of BS Chandrasekhar etc etc.

The point I'am trying to make is it is all great for us to speculate that these stalwarts need to go and I think they more than us know that their skills have diminished (its like a lion not being able hunt down a gazelle and is now feeding on a carcass of another's kill).

Therefore I guess it is more for the BCCI to sort of sit down the players and clearly specify what is the direction that the team is going to take and therefore what they expect and by when. This will give players time to plan and execute their own strategies to plot their grand exits. This no more than what any good organisation would do while getting into succession planning at senior levels, they would lay down clear understood goals and time frames for the individual to be able to make the cut or give up.

this is a valid way to look at things, but how can you decide at 33 if the person is going through a lean patch that his time is up when like Sg he can come back

[sudzz]

After reading some comments in this thread and even on the other on How Saching countered Ryan S, the one question that comes to mind is

Is it entirely a players responsibility to decide when he will walk away?

IMHO that given the money, the fame, the adulation that a Indian cricketer gets it is very very difficult to make a clear specific and objective decision to walk away from it all.

There are umpteen examples of even two bit cricketers who we purely lucky to play for India try and milk it even today by doing stuff like commentary, giving out opinions when none are asked for etc etc. Then we have examples of BS Chandrasekhar etc etc.

The point I'am trying to make is it is all great for us to speculate that these stalwarts need to go and I think they more than us know that their skills have diminished (its like a lion not being able hunt down a gazelle and is now feeding on a carcass of another's kill).

Therefore I guess it is more for the BCCI to sort of sit down the players and clearly specify what is the direction that the team is going to take and therefore what they expect and by when. This will give players time to plan and execute their own strategies to plot their grand exits. This no more than what any good organisation would do while getting into succession planning at senior levels, they would lay down clear understood goals and time frames for the individual to be able to make the cut or give up.

this is a valid way to look at things, but how can you decide at 33 if the person is going through a lean patch that his time is up when like Sg he can come back

Age is just one of the variables, it is a question of all the other aspects including your current and future bench strengths. The direction the team wants to take and the fitment of each and every individual player in the overall strategy of the team.

An example is Michael Bevan and his initial dropping from the test squad inspite of his obvious talent and later his exclusion from the ODI team even when he had the ability to continue doing what he was good at.

Not for a moment am I saying we need to do the same for any of our players just yet but the line of thinking that was displayed by CA and the coach and the think tank of the Aussies has paid dividends in the playing XI but more importantly it is reflective of their ability to spot and nurture talent from early days.  This is what is required by the Indian think tank as well.

[broadbat]

Therefore I guess it is more for the BCCI to sort of sit down the players and clearly specify what is the direction that the team is going to take and therefore what they expect and by when. This will give players time to plan and execute their own strategies to plot their grand exits. This no more than what any good organisation would do while getting into succession planning at senior levels, they would lay down clear understood goals and time frames for the individual to be able to make the cut or give up.

I think that is what happened with Damien Martyn. When he was told that he would be dropped he retired.

[Blwe_torch]

Therefore I guess it is more for the BCCI to sort of sit down the players and clearly specify what is the direction that the team is going to take and therefore what they expect and by when. This will give players time to plan and execute their own strategies to plot their grand exits. This no more than what any good organisation would do while getting into succession planning at senior levels, they would lay down clear understood goals and time frames for the individual to be able to make the cut or give up.

I think that is what happened with Damien Martyn. When he was told that he would be dropped he retired.

In this case there was more to it than meets the eye. Damien Martyn complained about some dressing room issues as well. Nobody wants to leave his fledgling career, at just one hint of negetivity.