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[OldPal]

Two main strike bowlers SS an ZK are wicket less....
In Hindsight i feel we shoul dhave played one more spinner ..

[schumi]

Two main strike bowlers SS an ZK are wicket less....
In Hindsight i feel we shoul dhave played one more spinner ..

But SS almost got the wicket of Strauss. KKD dropped a sitter. I think 3 seamers are still a good option for this test as there always seems to be some swing. We just didnt bowl the right length and line for the most part of the morning and afternoon sessions.

[LosingNow]

Two main strike bowlers SS an ZK are wicket less....
In Hindsight i feel we shoul dhave played one more spinner ..

But SS almost got the wicket of Strauss. KKD dropped a sitter. I think 3 seamers are still a good option for this test as there always seems to be some swing. We just didnt bowl the right length and line for the most part of the morning and afternoon sessions.

RPS was the best seamer on display today.

[LosingNow]

268-4 at close. 80.3 overs

At the end of the day, considering the pitch (belter), I think this is evenly poised test. I would even say, @ 268/4 on a belter 1st day's pitch, the balance is slightly tilted in India's favor today. But I put it an 50-50, considering our inability to remove the tail.

Test matches is all about winning 5 sessions in a row.. the curtailed 3rd session almost belonged to us. Hence, I still give England the edge.. tomorrow morning's session if it goes to India..the game is back in balance.

[dhruvdeepak]

i think this was some of the worst test bowling by us in a while. it wasnt like Eng did anything to win the first session  - we bowled atrociously in the morning. and there were plenty of edges, ball hitting back of the bat, plays and misses too, which means the Eng batsmen were not playing that well and were not at ease, but we didnt have the fielders in the right places, and we did not bowl consistently. so we pretty much gave them the first session, they played quietly and prevailed in the 2nd.

3rd session was intense cricket, even if on and off for light. we did a good job. Colly had no clue about the kumble delivery, which is encouraging. RP Singh was a revelation today - let's see if he can keep it up for the rest of the match, and then the series. on a different note, i thought the consistency and basics of Bose would have done a decent job in these conditions against these batsmen today - if he was up for the challenge of course.

268-4 with bell and prior to come, i say 60-40 for England. we should be damn pleased if we bowl them out for 400-425.

[dhruvdeepak]

chat was exciting today. jfk JBANNED Kban. Kban came back swinging - KBANNED both jfk and me. I replied in kind - DBANNED Kban.
Kban returned with a vengeance and KBANNED jfk for good.
observers were providing ban-by-ban commentary. was awesome. everyone else join chat tomorrow - lots of banning in store

[ruchir]

We seem to be side-stepping around our 2 coaches.

Our bowlers were nothing short of horrible to begin with. All the 3 pacers were bowling on the leg, bowling short balls, not able to handle the swing. Yet, none of us have said anything about Specialist coach Venky P. If it was Ian F helping them out, we would have ripped him apart for not being able to drill it inot the bowler's head as to where they are supposed to bowl.

Fielding has been horrible too. KKD dropping a sitter, as though he was catching bird-droppings. SRT cooolly diving over the ball and giving 4 runs. SG running (looked like laboring) along the boundary line, diving carefully over the ball and giving 4 runs. RD's reaction to that was worth seeing. SS not collecting the ball cleanly. These are some images that I remember. Yet, none of us have said anything about Specialist coach Robin S. If it was GC taking the fielding drills, we would have ripped him apart for not improving the fielding standards.

What do we say now? Are the specialist desi coaches being of any help?

[LosingNow]

We seem to be side-stepping around our 2 coaches.

Our bowlers were nothing short of horrible to begin with. All the 3 pacers were bowling on the leg, bowling short balls, not able to handle the swing. Yet, none of us have said anything about Specialist coach Venky P. If it was Ian F helping them out, we would have ripped him apart for not being able to drill it inot the bowler's head as to where they are supposed to bowl.

Fielding has been horrible too. KKD dropping a sitter, as though he was catching bird-droppings. SRT cooolly diving over the ball and giving 4 runs. SG running (looked like laboring) along the boundary line, diving carefully over the ball and giving 4 runs. RD's reaction to that was worth seeing. SS not collecting the ball cleanly. These are some images that I remember. Yet, none of us have said anything about Specialist coach Robin S. If it was GC taking the fielding drills, we would have ripped him apart for not improving the fielding standards.

What do we say now? Are the specialist desi coaches being of any help?

SG "trying" to stop that boundary was funny .. the commentators were giggling for a few minutes after that and showed RD's disgusted reaction. It was almost like - "hmm, do I want to run here.. ok, let me run .. oh no, I may reach the ball... ok, let me dive over it".
SRT - to his credit - had a couple of good run downs to save fours.. one particular instance, AK, VVS and he were running to save .. and he beat out both of them to save a four.

Fact of life is this.. if the raw material is not good (except in KKD and SS's cases).. no coach can polish it into a fine product. These are aging bodies .. they can perhaps survive in Tests..but I shudder to think what they will do in the ODIs (specially if they stay till the Aussie tri-series). Thank god, they have "self-selected" (there is a perfectly contrived Indian concoction) themselves out of the 20-20 championship.

These noble maharathis, when will they stop caring for the good of Indian cricket!!

[WicketView]

Wow, Bell is playing down the order!

I agree we lost out because of bad bowling. About not having fielders in the right places for the catche, I don't know as I did not watch. Sometimes, the batsmen get lucky.

[pieterSAN]

Vaughan will be kicking himself. They were in a position to put us to the sword tomorrow. Now I think it will be a lot more interesting.

[schumi]

KP's wicket is the key and if we get him early, I would back India to bowl them out for less than 400.

[ruchir]

SRT - to his credit - had a couple of good run downs to save fours.. one particular instance, AK, VVS and he were running to save .. and he beat out both of them to save a four.

If SRT is good because he beat AK and VVS in speed  , then we have really low standards for him, need to lift them.

KP's wicket is the key and if we get him early, I would back India to bowl them out for less than 400.

Yup, KP is the guy standing between < 400 all out and painful lower order partnerships. KP is not known for farming strike, though. We may have a chance there.

[WicketView]

We seem to be side-stepping around our 2 coaches.

Our bowlers were nothing short of horrible to begin with. All the 3 pacers were bowling on the leg, bowling short balls, not able to handle the swing. Yet, none of us have said anything about Specialist coach Venky P. If it was Ian F helping them out, we would have ripped him apart for not being able to drill it inot the bowler's head as to where they are supposed to bowl.

Fielding has been horrible too. KKD dropping a sitter, as though he was catching bird-droppings. SRT cooolly diving over the ball and giving 4 runs. SG running (looked like laboring) along the boundary line, diving carefully over the ball and giving 4 runs. RD's reaction to that was worth seeing. SS not collecting the ball cleanly. These are some images that I remember. Yet, none of us have said anything about Specialist coach Robin S. If it was GC taking the fielding drills, we would have ripped him apart for not improving the fielding standards.

What do we say now? Are the specialist desi coaches being of any help?

Ruchir sounds nostalgic

I don't know exactly which comments you are referring to as there could have been comments of numerous kinds.

But mostly I don't think anyone blamed a few mis-fields on Greg Chappell's inability to hold fielding drills. Rather, to my mind a problem was an overuse of the fielding excuse: a number of cricket writers sought to justify team selection on the basis of fielding. Now, it hardly takes a 3 year old to recognize that all other things between two players being equal, the one with better fielding skills should be chosen over the other. In real life, the first proviso seldom holds making the choice more complicated. I have read articles which claimed, that X being a good fielder would on the average contribute n runs (rather save n runs) while fielding, so it does not matter if he scores n runs less. Firstly, I have doubted the quantitative correctness of such statements but am not sure that they are wrong (Maybe if our stat project worked, we could get some  idea of how correct these are). But then when some of these good fielders miss catches and misfield, then ire is correctly directed at the policy.  There were also sketchy reports about GC's preferred drill methods that raised concerns. I don't hold his methods responsible for Yuvraj's injury, but I did wonder about the army training stuff. While the reports were not clear, it is possible to pick up injuries if madness prevailed.

Ian Frazier has been criticized for not helping the bowlers like Pathan with their action. The criticism would not have been as harsh, if it were not for the fact that GC was hard nosed about hiring him; and possibly had a significant role in not hiring a specialist bowling coach; not for bowlers having a bad day.

[fineleg]

Where was KKD fielding when he dropped the sitter?

This is sad, he was supposed to be a good fielder and we have him dropping sitters 

[ruchir]

WV --

If you read the chats and match threads for games during last 6 months of GC, you would have seen that every time a bowler bowled badly, Frazer was soundly criticized for not being able to guide the bowler in bowling good lines etc. He wasn't just criticized for not being able to help Pathan. Here, we have a specialist bowling coach. This is his 3rd series. Yet we have IS bowling wide balls, ZK, SS, RPS not being able to control their swing and line. It is the same as before. The difference is that earlier IF was blasted for coaching bowler without having bowling credentials, now VP is being forgotten inspite of being specialist bowling coach.

For fielding, it wasn't just about making selections based on fielding capabilities. In GC's time, YS, KKD, RU made fielding errors, and it was said that what was GC doing to improve the standards? It was said that we needed a fielding coach since GC was not being able to do anything. Well, we have a fielding coach now, for 3 series, but is there any improvement?

[ruchir]

Where was KKD fielding when he dropped the sitter?

This is sad, he was supposed to be a good fielder and we have him dropping sitters 

26.2     Sreesanth to Strauss, no run, dropped! Would you believe it? On the stroke of lunch, Sreesanth gets Strauss to drive loosely, away from his body, and slice the simplest of chances to Karthik at point, who initially thinks about jumping but then realizes its coming at him nicely, cupping his hands in front of his face and then letting it pop out, even as his hat blows off! How costly will that prove? Yikes!

[Cover Point]

WV --

If you read the chats and match threads for games during last 6 months of GC, you would have seen that every time a bowler bowled badly, Frazer was soundly criticized for not being able to guide the bowler in bowling good lines etc. He wasn't just criticized for not being able to help Pathan. Here, we have a specialist bowling coach. This is his 3rd series. Yet we have IS bowling wide balls, ZK, SS, RPS not being able to control their swing and line. It is the same as before. The difference is that earlier IF was blasted for coaching bowler without having bowling credentials, now VP is being forgotten inspite of being specialist bowling coach.

For fielding, it wasn't just about making selections based on fielding capabilities. In GC's time, YS, KKD, RU made fielding errors, and it was said that what was GC doing to improve the standards? It was said that we needed a fielding coach since GC was not being able to do anything. Well, we have a fielding coach now, for 3 series, but is there any improvement?

You know as well as anyone else that criticism of IF or GC had nothing to do with their credentials or their ability to coach. Those were due to the single minded (single issue) hatred that made some people find any/all reasons to jump on them. If India won 17--18 in a row ... find fault with the quality of opp. If India bowled with discipline (there were a few ODI's where India had as few as a total of 2-3 wides) find something else wrong. Ofcourse when India started losing, these same people behaved as if they just won the lotto!

Its the hatred that drives them

[Libran]

Where was KKD fielding when he dropped the sitter?

This is sad, he was supposed to be a good fielder and we have him dropping sitters 

26.2     Sreesanth to Strauss, no run, dropped! Would you believe it? On the stroke of lunch, Sreesanth gets Strauss to drive loosely, away from his body, and slice the simplest of chances to Karthik at point, who initially thinks about jumping but then realizes its coming at him nicely, cupping his hands in front of his face and then letting it pop out, even as his hat blows off! How costly will that prove? Yikes!

This is the 3rd or 4th time that KKD has done this....seems to be overdoing the diving bit or is it the WK instinct that drives him...whatever it may be...it is proving to be costly....

[fineleg]

Where was KKD fielding when he dropped the sitter?

This is sad, he was supposed to be a good fielder and we have him dropping sitters 

26.2     Sreesanth to Strauss, no run, dropped! Would you believe it? On the stroke of lunch, Sreesanth gets Strauss to drive loosely, away from his body, and slice the simplest of chances to Karthik at point, who initially thinks about jumping but then realizes its coming at him nicely, cupping his hands in front of his face and then letting it pop out, even as his hat blows off! How costly will that prove? Yikes!

This is the 3rd or 4th time that KKD has done this....seems to be overdoing the diving bit or is it the WK instinct that drives him...whatever it may be...it is proving to be costly....

Ravi,
Something seriously is wrong with KKD and his fielding other than WK.
Maybe we should park him as WK, and see if MSD can field.

[fineleg]

WV --

If you read the chats and match threads for games during last 6 months of GC, you would have seen that every time a bowler bowled badly, Frazer was soundly criticized for not being able to guide the bowler in bowling good lines etc. He wasn't just criticized for not being able to help Pathan. Here, we have a specialist bowling coach. This is his 3rd series. Yet we have IS bowling wide balls, ZK, SS, RPS not being able to control their swing and line. It is the same as before. The difference is that earlier IF was blasted for coaching bowler without having bowling credentials, now VP is being forgotten inspite of being specialist bowling coach.

For fielding, it wasn't just about making selections based on fielding capabilities. In GC's time, YS, KKD, RU made fielding errors, and it was said that what was GC doing to improve the standards? It was said that we needed a fielding coach since GC was not being able to do anything. Well, we have a fielding coach now, for 3 series, but is there any improvement?

You know as well as anyone else that criticism of IF or GC had nothing to do with their credentials or their ability to coach. Those were due to the single minded (single issue) hatred that made some people find any/all reasons to jump on them. If India won 17--18 in a row ... find fault with the quality of opp. If India bowled with discipline (there were a few ODI's where India had as few as a total of 2-3 wides) find something else wrong. Ofcourse when India started losing, these same people behaved as if they just won the lotto!

Its the hatred that drives them

Had GC not kicked out SG with such a force, then these same people will criticize GC but without all this venom.
Ofcourse GC failed and deserves criticism, but the hatred is becos he touched a floundering batsman.

[broadbat]

ZK seems to be having too many off days, inspite of being the sides No1 pace bowler. Unless he pulls up his socks we could be chasing in excess of 400. How long can they expect AK to do all the work? However the weather may have the last laugh.

[fineleg]

ZK seems to be having too many off days, inspite of being the sides No1 pace bowler. Unless he pulls up his socks we could be chasing in excess of 400. How long can they expect AK to do all the work? However the weather may have the last laugh.

match winners regularly...
Kapil Dev, AK, who else in that calibre?(im asking during latter part of or after Kapil's era, spin quartet was there before)

[pipsqueak]

what's the current weather situation? any chance of play starting on time?

[broadbat]

Currently there is light rain in London not too sure about Lords.

[Libran]

Should the game not start earlier than scheduled given that 90 ovs were not completed y'day ?

[broadbat]

Should the game not start earlier than scheduled given that 90 ovs were not completed y'day ?

I dont know if they start earlier in England but they surely play till late in the evening. BTW rain is forecast for all the remaining days of this Test with today and Monday having the heaviest.

[LosingNow]

From CI:

Hello and welcome, wherever you may be, to Cricinfo's live coverage of day two of the first Test at Lord's. I'm Jamie Alter, your commentator for the day, with the news that its very overcast and wet at the ground, so there's no chance of play any time soon.

Heavy rain fell on Thursday night and it is expected to continue throughout today. Add to that the report that storms are predicted later, and it doesnt make for pretty reading. Alot of the heavy rain has gone towards west London, towards the Midlands. The ground is all but empty, allround gloomy scenes at Lord's.

The umpires, Simon Taufel and Steve Bucknor, were just walking out with their umbrellas, and returned shortly, not looking too impressed. We'll have to sit around and play the waiting game, I'm afraid.

[WicketView]

WV --

If you read the chats and match threads for games during last 6 months of GC, you would have seen that every time a bowler bowled badly, Frazer was soundly criticized for not being able to guide the bowler in bowling good lines etc. He wasn't just criticized for not being able to help Pathan. Here, we have a specialist bowling coach. This is his 3rd series. Yet we have IS bowling wide balls, ZK, SS, RPS not being able to control their swing and line. It is the same as before. The difference is that earlier IF was blasted for coaching bowler without having bowling credentials, now VP is being forgotten inspite of being specialist bowling coach.

For fielding, it wasn't just about making selections based on fielding capabilities. In GC's time, YS, KKD, RU made fielding errors, and it was said that what was GC doing to improve the standards? It was said that we needed a fielding coach since GC was not being able to do anything. Well, we have a fielding coach now, for 3 series, but is there any improvement?

Well, I was not in the DG that early. But, I am quite aware that people with extreme opinions exist in the world, I need not agree with them. Yet, I feel Ian Frazier's contribution deserves questioning on a number of issues: Pathan, Munaf come to mind. I would even bring up SRT (shoulder injury in Pak tour, but continued fielding at the boundary) though blame apportioning is somewhat harder ... but my way of looking at this is after staffing the dressing room with a bunch of specialists we were unable to handle a big problem. The coaching team's role on not having a specialist bowling coach hardens  this opinion. On the fielding side, I would not suggest that a new fielding coach was essential, in that GC failed to do drills properly. But, I would claim that for all the emphasis on fielding, the number of catches we dropped were far too many to really claim that w had improved. Since the improvement of fielding standards were so central to GC's list of successes, it naturally begs the question: "Exactly what did GC bring to the table?". Finally, there is a very natural human reaction. The bigger one talks, the harsher the criticism on failure.

But I don't think we should hijack this thread with the past. So, if you want to talk to about this, I suggest that it be done elsewhere.

[LosingNow]

From CI:

10.34 Ugh. Nine centimeters of rain are expected around 2 pm local.

Martin Williamson tells me that most people he spoke to yesterday weren't even going to bother to turn up it was such a bad forecast.

It certainly looks that way at Lord's. Seems many will just sit at home and wait for the refund cheques. It's not only very gloomy - even if it was dry the light's too bad for any play - but the Met Office have recently issued a severe weather warning for the southern part of the country and torrential rain is predicted for later today ... The forecast for tomorrow if for heavy showers as well, but bright parts in between.

BBC radio have just said chance of play is "very remote". Ho hum.

The camera pans across the ground and look, there are two very hopeful gentlemen sitting under an umbrella with a packet of chips, with no one around them for miles. Not what you want to see on day two of Test as big as this.
--
Wrong.. that is an Indian couple - a gentleman and a lady - having chips under an umbrella.

[LosingNow]

Rain falling with more intensity... 2nd day appears a washout.

Oh boy, the ground looks like one big lake...and it is still pouring. No way, any cricket possible today...or even tomorrow?

[feverpitch]

WV --
If you read the chats and match threads for games during last 6 months of GC, you would have seen that every time a bowler bowled badly, Frazer was soundly criticized for not being able to guide the bowler in bowling good lines etc. He wasn't just criticized for not being able to help Pathan. Here, we have a specialist bowling coach. This is his 3rd series. Yet we have IS bowling wide balls, ZK, SS, RPS not being able to control their swing and line. It is the same as before. The difference is that earlier IF was blasted for coaching bowler without having bowling credentials, now VP is being forgotten inspite of being specialist bowling coach.
For fielding, it wasn't just about making selections based on fielding capabilities. In GC's time, YS, KKD, RU made fielding errors, and it was said that what was GC doing to improve the standards? It was said that we needed a fielding coach since GC was not being able to do anything. Well, we have a fielding coach now, for 3 series, but is there any improvement?

You know as well as anyone else that criticism of IF or GC had nothing to do with their credentials or their ability to coach. Those were due to the single minded (single issue) hatred that made some people find any/all reasons to jump on them. If India won 17--18 in a row ... find fault with the quality of opp. If India bowled with discipline (there were a few ODI's where India had as few as a total of 2-3 wides) find something else wrong. Ofcourse when India started losing, these same people behaved as if they just won the lotto!
Its the hatred that drives them

Had GC not kicked out SG with such a force, then these same people will criticize GC but without all this venom.
Ofcourse GC failed and deserves criticism, but the hatred is becos he touched a floundering batsman.

So you do realize at last that the anger of the GC-baiters on this DG had everything to do with the manner in which SG was dumped, and not with any primal hatred, as CP suggests.

Now, all that remains explaining is why you hate SG so much, given that you accept that his exclusion was carried out wrongfully (and was motivated by factors not pertaining to cricket).

So, when do you propose to do that?

[caught and bowled]

I am not watching live so I don’t know how exactly it is at Lords right now. However, if it is anywhere near as overcast and heavy as it is right now in my part of Europe, I would say this is a chance for our bowlers to make up for their performance of yesterday.. Apparently, they are expecting about 2 hrs worth of play today. Enough to bowl the poms out...

[dhruvdeepak]

hello and good morning! remarkable turn of events. get your bottoms onto chat

[OldPal]

what is the turn of events ? SL winning ?

[dhruvdeepak]

what is the turn of events ? SL winning ?

play at Lord's - 2 wickets down too. 286-6

[keep-it-cool]

291-8 .... SS .... what a turnaround!!

[caught and bowled]

At this rate, our batsmen would be out in the park in no time today. I don’t like it. I don’t think Jaffer will be able to cope with the movement (hope he proves me wrong…!!)

[OldPal]

Two main strike bowlers SS an ZK are wicket less....
In Hindsight i feel we shoul dhave played one more spinner ..

under 300 ... Hmm
I take that back

[OldPal]

At this rate, our batsmen would be out in the park in no time today. I don’t like it. I don’t think Jaffer will be able to cope with the movement (hope he proves me wrong…!!)

This will also be the test of Karthik's ability..Dravid , VVSL should be uo the order ..
Let us see we can survive forst 15 overs .

[OldPal]

Jaffer survives one more duck
2.4 Sidebottom to Jaffer, 1 run, edged and dropped! Jaffer lunges forward to a full delivery, gets a regulation edge, but Prior drops it, going one-handed to his right! And its a single to boot...