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[RicePlateReddy]

[Mods/Dex - please make this thread sticky].

* This is a draft of statistics that many of us are interested in tracking that no site or resource currently tracks.

* This thread discusses a draft format to solicit feedback. It would be great to wrap this up before the first Ind -Eng test match starts!

* I am assuming we have the bandwidth to do this just for the Indian team, since many of us see the international matches that India plays. It would be awesome if this could be extended to all teams.

* The format and metrics proposed below track only the two areas covered in the subject - fielding and umpiring. If someone else could drive the other good ideas proposed (statsbook, rating), please, please do. If you start such a thread, please give it a similar title as this so we can group them together and the idea does not get fragmented.

* Please provide feedback on this format / thread. It is mine as much as it is yours 

* Dex and I had a brief chat about ownership and editing permissions for the thread. I don't know the limits of this DG software, but the idea was the main stats table would be maintained by a designated set of persons. But comments to the thread should be allowed by everyone. The aim in restricting the ability to edit the stats table to a limited set is only to ensure integrity, accuracy and eliminate concurrent edits. I think Dex and crew will be totally open to anyone interested in gaining these permissions. The key criteria is they should be watching the game (on TV or internet video feeds). That eliminates me .... for now at least, though I'll be happy to format the post with respect to readability. Please let us keep this selection controversy free: its the pre-requisite that allow us to go at each other's throats, and we don't want to ruin that now, do we

* Proposal - there will be one such thread for tests and one for ODIs. The umpiring sections may be consolidated so there is no differentiation between ODIs and tests.

* ODIs will track fielding misfields also. Probably overkill for tests.

* All right, my next message below is a sample "table" with fictitious data. Just to give you a feel.

* The subsequent message is an annotations message that provides details (of errors, great efforts, not the regular stats).

[RicePlateReddy]

FIELDING

Player	Overall Catches(Great ones)|	Catches Dropped |	Run Outs|	Run Outs missed|
Wasim Jaffer	0	0	0	0
Dinesh Kartik	1(1)	0	1	1
Rahul Dravid	2	1	0	0
Sachin Tendulkar	1	0	0	0
Saurav Ganguly	1	0	0	0
VVS Laxman	2(1)	1	0	1
MS Dhoni	4	0	0	1
Anil Kumble	1	0	0	0
Zaheer Khan	1	0	0	0
S Sreesanth	0	0	0	0
Ranadeb Bose	1	0	0	0

Date range:
Start: 1st Test - India vs England Lord July 19th 2007
End: 1st Test - India vs England Lord July 19th 2007


UMPIRING

Umpire|	Missed Catches|	Incorrect Catches|	Missed LBW|	Incorrect LBW|	Missed NB|	Incorrect NB|
Simon Taufel	1	0	0	0	0	0
Steve Bucknor	1	1	1	0	0	0

Date range:
Start: 1st Test - India vs England Lord July 19th 2007
End: 1st Test - India vs England Lord July 19th 2007

[RicePlateReddy]

Annotations:

Fielding:

* Dinesh Kartik caught Strauss spectacularly at cover (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn, 2007)
* Dinesh Kartik missed a dolly from Kevin Pietersen on 25 - went on to score 188 (Ind-Eng 1st Test 2 inn, 2007)
* Dinesh Kartik missed running Vaughan out with a direct throw from cover (Ind-Eng 1st Test  1 inn, 2007)

* Rahul Dravid missed a sitter and reprieved Vaughan on 0. Went on to score 2 (Ind-Eng 1st Test 2 inn, 2007)

* VVS Laxman caught Collingwood superbly at 2nd slip (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn,  2007)
* VVS Laxman missed a catch that should have been taken at slips. Prior on 10, went on to score 80 (Ind-Eng 1st Test 2 inn, 2007)
* VVS Laxman missed a simple runout of Bell on 30. Went on to score 56 (Ind-Eng 1st Test 2 inn, 2007)

* MS Dhoni flubbed running Monty Panesar out. Panesar was on 1 went on to 5* (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn, 2007)

Umpiring:

* Simon Taufel missed a caught behind of Dhoni (off Chris Broad) at 18, went on to score 55 (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn, 2007)
 
* Steve Bucknor missed a caught behind of Pietersen (off Kumble) at 22, went on to score 188 (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn, 2007)
* Steve Bucknor incorrectly gave Tendulkar caught behing (off Tremlett) for 55. (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn, 2007)
* Steve Bucknor missed giving Pietersen out LBW (off Saurav Ganguly) at 80, went on to score 188 (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn, 2007)

[fineleg]

KoP,
For the table, I think dex has once mentioned he has a "richer editor type of tool" for the MAIN page which will let you put tables in a better format. Currently, the format is a bit skewed.

You can use
{table}  {/table}  - replace {} with []
but that is painful...maybe dex has a better way of formatting the table of stats.

[RicePlateReddy]

Yes FL - improved formatting of the table will be good. I just noticed the table icons among the rich edit buttons. I will edit the tabular layout in due course and lets see how it looks. Thanks.

[atticus]

For the umpires - how about adding missed no-balls (or incorrect no-ball call) as well. I vaguely remember one series recently where there were too many no-balls that were missed by the umpire that resulted in wickets.

Also, it would be good to lay down some rules as to what constitutes a wrong lbw/catch decision. Should scorers just follow whatever the hawk-eye shows or follow whatever the commentator(s) conclude or does it only apply to clearly wrong decisions and all 50-50 decisions will be left alone? It would also be great if we include the number of correct decisions made by the umpire as well so that we can get a percentage of correct/incorrect decisions.

[RicePlateReddy]

For the umpires - how about adding missed no-balls (or incorrect no-ball call) as well. I vaguely remember one series recently where there were too many no-balls that were missed by the umpire that resulted in wickets.

Agreed, though does the TV broadcast verify each ball for potential no balls, or only when they suspect something? In any case, adding these columns is just fine, even if information available is not complete. I will do so in my update which also formats the tables better.

Also, it would be good to lay down some rules as to what constitutes a wrong lbw/catch decision. Should scorers just follow whatever the hawk-eye shows or follow whatever the commentator(s) conclude or does it only apply to clearly wrong decisions and all 50-50 decisions will be left alone? It would also be great if we include the number of correct decisions made by the umpire as well so that we can get a percentage of correct/incorrect decisions.

Yes, this needs to be debated.

My suggestion is to go with hawk eye replays we see plus give serious weightage to the commentators comments. If there is significant doubt, then we do not include it. The commentators often exclaim that there is doubt. If it is quite clear and the commentators exclaim "that looks out to me", we ding the umpire. So in short, it tracks clearly wrong decisions. 50-50s are given the benefit of doubt by the commentators usually, I think. If the commentator is a dunce or someone whose opinion we shouldn't care for (or doesn't offer an opinion), we go with our estimate.

While we can stick with this "clearly out" premise, it does not restrict the notes below to add on "50-50" or grey area decisions so we don't lose data.

The issue with including correct decisions with the stats is that it may be a lot of burden for the folks entering the info. I already feel the biggest risk is not having enough redundancy among those updating the stats to track everything. But a counter point is that at the end of the match, the scorecard can be perused to get these stats. However, we will miss stuff like denied LBW or caught behind appeals. Thoughts?

[broadbat]

Any point in tracking fielding and umpiring without batting and bowling. Besides umpires will be rated only for India matches?? Have you gone through the ideas discussed on the Tony Greig/CV Stats post?

[RicePlateReddy]

Any point in tracking fielding and umpiring without batting and bowling. Besides umpires will be rated only for India matches?? Have you gone through the ideas discussed on the Tony Greig/CV Stats post?

Which batting and bowling stats do you propose tracking - broadbat?

The reason for  making this "India only" is that we may not have sufficient people watching non India games live. If this is incorrect, please go ahead and expand the thread to be inclusive of other teams.

There were other ideas discussed in the Tony Greig/CV Stats post like a poll based rating. That is a good idea. Jiet, would you be able to start the ball rolling on that - would be great to have all this ready before the India - England test.

[dhruvdeepak]

i would like to contribute towards the umpiring aspect of this performance tracking. will keep a detailed account of umpiring gaffes (if any), will also jot down the notable good decisions, and will conform the data to the required format at the end of the Test.

[pieterSAN]

Any point in tracking fielding and umpiring without batting and bowling. Besides umpires will be rated only for India matches?? Have you gone through the ideas discussed on the Tony Greig/CV Stats post?

Which batting and bowling stats do you propose tracking - broadbat?

The reason for  making this "India only" is that we may not have sufficient people watching non India games live. If this is incorrect, please go ahead and expand the thread to be inclusive of other teams.

There were other ideas discussed in the Tony Greig/CV Stats post like a poll based rating. That is a good idea. Jiet, would you be able to start the ball rolling on that - would be great to have all this ready before the India - England test.

I missed this post earlier.

As far as a poll goes, I can set it up...do we want to do rate overall performances or rate each category?

[RicePlateReddy]

As far as a poll goes, I can set it up...do we want to do rate overall performances or rate each category?

Overall performance in the match is what I would suggest. My feeling is if it becomes too involved, it will lose participation. But in either case, having something is a good idea.

[RicePlateReddy]

i would like to contribute towards the umpiring aspect of this performance tracking. will keep a detailed account of umpiring gaffes (if any), will also jot down the notable good decisions, and will conform the data to the required format at the end of the Test.

Great - thanks.

[broadbat]

Which batting and bowling stats do you propose tracking - broadbat?

Actually I was thinking along the rating lines and not stats as such. Since Jiet has agreed to work on it ...great.

[schumi]

Annotations:

Fielding:

* Dinesh Kartik caught Strauss spectacularly at cover (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn, 2007)
* Dinesh Kartik missed a dolly from Kevin Pietersen on 25 - went on to score 188 (Ind-Eng 1st Test 2 inn, 2007)

What were you smoking KoP when you wrote this a couple of days ago? I hope strauss does not go to score 188.

[keep-it-cool]

Annotations:

Fielding:

* Dinesh Kartik caught Strauss spectacularly at cover (Ind-Eng 1st Test, 1 inn, 2007)
* Dinesh Kartik missed a dolly from Kevin Pietersen on 25 - went on to score 188 (Ind-Eng 1st Test 2 inn, 2007)

What were you smoking KoP when you wrote this a couple of days ago? I hope strauss does not go to score 188.

Lets hope the opposite works for the second prediction as well