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[pieterSAN]

Naseer is a genius. It is a little difficult to call someone the greatest actor in India but Naseer would definitely one I would nominate, perhaps along with Mohanlal as two of the greatest actors I have seen from India. It is difficult to choose betweeen them.

Greatest actor in the world would be an interesting thread too.

[kban1]

achu

first of all i would like to clarify that srk and amir are two separate topics and i can like both actors.

so please do not say that i dislike one because i like the other.

amir khan movies were something i looked forward to right from QSQT days. i enjoyd his dil immensely, he does feel natural and all that as kban mentioned. but my problem is that he since lagaan has come across as someone who thinks he is niro. his "look-at-me-i-am-so-into-kafka" thing is something that is overbearing. for the record i thought lagaan was a boring film. and just the novelty of the storyline situaion does not a good film make. but an oscar nominaion can really do wonders for your intellectual quotient i suppose.

to answer kic's take on the templates, yes you are right. what else is there if you take the bollywood context. but if you were to evaluate his acting from a mere film perspective he is too limited in range. his role may be different but the way he acts in those roles there is a sense of deja vu. for example the amir in rangeela = amir in dil chata hai =amir in first half of RDB = amir in JJWS. see them (and i have seen his movies multiple times, big fan of amir in JJWS). but his tag of "serious" actor is something i don't feel he ahs earned. now you see tabu in astitva and tabu in namesake you find that she hasbrought completely deifferent shades to the two housewives she portrays there. and remember a simple commonplace housewife is one of the most difficult roles to do, you cannot bank on character eccentricites to bail you out in your acting-creativity.

as far as SRK goes, i have not said that he is not getting the roles he deserves - not at all. merely i am saying that he chooses to be the superstar (or should i say the superupstart:)) and he knows what the public wants to see. but the point i was making was that he is no less an actor and that is why i pointed you to the movies i mentioned in the earlier post.

i hope this clarifies my different stands on amir and SRK.

This makes sense -- a very cogent explanation of your stance.

Although I would disagree with your assertion that he does not have what it takes to be a serious actor.  Mind you, I am not saying he is the best actor, just that he is a better actor then most currently, and definitely ahead of SRK.

BTW, in case you missed it, the "why do you hate amir" comment was in jest.

[kban1]

achu:

why do you hate amir so much ? 

He loves Shahrukh, perhaps? 

are they mutually exclusive as far as likeability?

Comeon yaar, I meant if you like Shah Rukh, you are perhaps incapable of appreciating Amir 

Gotcha, I misunderstood the first time round.

[poondu]

Govinda is the best actor in Bollywood.      

[kban1]

Jai:

Pitamah, I fail to get your point. Mithunda, in your own words, is a good actor and you are referring to his rols in some of the art films that he has done. Apparently he has given a very good performance in Buddhadev's 'Kaalpurush', also starring Rahul Bose, but the film hasn't yet released commercially although it has received acclaims in all the film festivals. Other than the art films, I can also name a few commercial films where Mithunda has been very good. At least there's no doubt about Mithunda's talent and even people (mostly non-Bengalis) who haven't watched his art films tend to agree with that. But tell me which SRK performance comes even close to Mithunda's performance in 'Mrigaya', 'Tahader Katha', 'Swami Vivekanand', 'Hum Paanch' etc.? Why do you call SRK a monumental waste of talent? I can understand and agree with your comments on Mithunda's commercial career, but imo SRK is not even remotely close to Mithunda as far as talent is concerned. Yes, he may be a bigger commercial success than most of the stars, past and present, but that's entirely different. So where's the comparison yaar? The other thing is the Bachchans and the SRKs have always worked with the biggest filmmakers of the industry while a Mithunda, Govinda, even Aamir (to a much lesser extent though) didn't have those luxaries and yet survived and gave hits. 'Rangeela' was Ramu's first hit in Hindi, when Aamir worked with Vikram Bhaat in 'Ghulam', Bhaat was a nobody. No other actor would have probably worked with Gowarikar after he made 'Pehla Nasha' and 'Baazi', but Aamir did and he even produced 'Laagan'. 'Sarforash' was JMM's first ever film. However, I didn't like Aamir doing 'Fanaa'. That was a stupid film. Btw, imho, in terms of purely acting, the best that we have today is Irrfan. The guy will never be a big commercial star because he lacks what's needed to be one in Bollywood, but he's ever so dependable, much like Koko.  

You misunderstood what I said. I did not compare Mithun and SRK in terms of acting potential / talent. Mithun, when he chose to be, was a far more accomplished actor than SRK -- 3 National awards for best acting as well as numerous good roles in serious movies are a testament to that.

I compared them in terms of not doing justice to their talent -- Mithun sold himself short, perhaps consciously, in the commercial arena just as SRK does, I have a hunch though that it is unconscious -- as in he genuinely thinks what he dishes out is good acting.

[kban1]

Govinda is the best actor in Bollywood.      

Jhoota Ilzaam

[Jai]

Jai:

Pitamah, I fail to get your point. Mithunda, in your own words, is a good actor and you are referring to his rols in some of the art films that he has done. Apparently he has given a very good performance in Buddhadev's 'Kaalpurush', also starring Rahul Bose, but the film hasn't yet released commercially although it has received acclaims in all the film festivals. Other than the art films, I can also name a few commercial films where Mithunda has been very good. At least there's no doubt about Mithunda's talent and even people (mostly non-Bengalis) who haven't watched his art films tend to agree with that. But tell me which SRK performance comes even close to Mithunda's performance in 'Mrigaya', 'Tahader Katha', 'Swami Vivekanand', 'Hum Paanch' etc.? Why do you call SRK a monumental waste of talent? I can understand and agree with your comments on Mithunda's commercial career, but imo SRK is not even remotely close to Mithunda as far as talent is concerned. Yes, he may be a bigger commercial success than most of the stars, past and present, but that's entirely different. So where's the comparison yaar? The other thing is the Bachchans and the SRKs have always worked with the biggest filmmakers of the industry while a Mithunda, Govinda, even Aamir (to a much lesser extent though) didn't have those luxaries and yet survived and gave hits. 'Rangeela' was Ramu's first hit in Hindi, when Aamir worked with Vikram Bhaat in 'Ghulam', Bhaat was a nobody. No other actor would have probably worked with Gowarikar after he made 'Pehla Nasha' and 'Baazi', but Aamir did and he even produced 'Laagan'. 'Sarforash' was JMM's first ever film. However, I didn't like Aamir doing 'Fanaa'. That was a stupid film. Btw, imho, in terms of purely acting, the best that we have today is Irrfan. The guy will never be a big commercial star because he lacks what's needed to be one in Bollywood, but he's ever so dependable, much like Koko.  

You misunderstood what I said. I did not compare Mithun and SRK in terms of acting potential / talent. Mithun, when he chose to be, was a far more accomplished actor than SRK -- 3 National awards for best acting as well as numerous good roles in serious movies are a testament to that.

I compared them in terms of not doing justice to their talent -- Mithun sold himself short, perhaps consciously, in the commercial arena just as SRK does, I have a hunch though that it is unconscious -- as in he genuinely thinks what he dishes out is good acting.

No boss, I think I got you right.  But my question is where do you see talent in SRK because you are saying that he hasn't done/isn't doing justice to his talent? My point is if SRK has got talents, then the talent of Mithunda or Naseer or Om Puri or has to be put in an entire different category. However I agree with your last line on SRK. The same happened to Bachchan Sr. He never acted in an 'art' film and at the peak of his career, instead of trying to do something different and meaningful, he dished out 'Coolie', 'Mard', 'Toofan', Jaadugar', 'Akayla', 'Naastik', 'Pukar', 'Shahenshah'......I can probably list another 20 films. For SRK to try out something different, he first has to say alvida to KJo and Main Nahi Hoon to Farah Khan. It may be ironic that like Bachchan Sr. who did most of his memorable films at the beginning of his career with Hrishikesh Mukherjee (and some with PM like 'Zanjeer' or 'Sholay' with RS), SRK too imho did some of his better films with his mentors like Aziz Mirza and Kundan Shah. Like Bachchan Sr. who later moved to the Desai camp, SRK too has moved to KJo and Chopra camp. The result is the same, nothing new to offer, it's the same old commercial stuffs.

[amit_c]

Jai,

Kban can document his position more accurately, but I guess he is extrapolating from bits and
pieces of Shahrukh where you see a potentially better actor. Definitely not as good as Mithun
(I won't even mention Naseer and Om Puri here), but less campy than he has been.

Analyzing Hindi movies strictly as films is perhaps a wrong way to look at them, after all. Bollywood
is a modern-day equivalent of vaudeville, with exaggarated singing, dancing, romancing, fighting,
weeping by screen-genic faces rolled into a wholesome family entertainment, and glitzily packaged
for the 21st century. Within this paradigm, Amitabh and Shahrukh have been the undisputed kings.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as it also generates the Omkaras and the Page3s.

[kban1]

Jai:

As amit_c says, you can see glimpses of good acting by SRK before its smothered in a sea of overblown histrionics. Also, in terms of facial expressions, he has a very wide range of expressible emotions - that is a wide repertoire.

Unfortunately he is neither trained nor restrained enough to do justice to these component parts by creating a pleasant and believeable acting mosaic. His approach to acting is to use these all at once in large dollops in the mistaken belief that it creates an acting mosaic -- in reality, all he does is sully the canvas with jarring colors.

What he needs is acting lessons to harness his potential, but since when have superstars been amenable to acting lessons ?

[sudzz]

Govinda is the best actor in Bollywood.      

I would tend to agree in terms of acting talent he is far superior to many others (somewhat like Mithunda)...Now he is one guy who has not been exploited very well. His comic timing is impeccable (so what if the humor is not)..I have seen his roles in a couple of other movies where he played roles of a angry young man, or a wronged man etc etc he has been very very good.

In terms of ability he is second to none, in terms of choice of films he has been right for his audience which we may not be but he is one honest actor who does justice to his roles.

[toney]

Naseer is a genius. It is a little difficult to call someone the greatest actor in India but Naseer would definitely one I would nominate, perhaps along with Mohanlal as two of the greatest actors I have seen from India. It is difficult to choose betweeen them.

Greatest actor in the world would be an interesting thread too.

Pietersan,
Agree completely. I dont think Naseeruddin can be conclusively termed as the greatest Indina actor.
I would also add Tilakan and Jagadhi to that list of yours. In fact, I think Tilakan is a better actor than any of these people. I am pretty sure there are other regional actors who merit mention. Actors like Shah Rukh (or even Amir) cannot hold a candle to them.

[pieterSAN]

Naseer is a genius. It is a little difficult to call someone the greatest actor in India but Naseer would definitely one I would nominate, perhaps along with Mohanlal as two of the greatest actors I have seen from India. It is difficult to choose betweeen them.

Greatest actor in the world would be an interesting thread too.

Pietersan,
Agree completely. I dont think Naseeruddin can be conclusively termed as the greatest Indina actor.
I would also add Tilakan and Jagadhi to that list of yours. In fact, I think Tilakan is a better actor than any of these people. I am pretty sure there are other regional actors who merit mention. Actors like Shah Rukh (or even Amir) cannot hold a candle to them.

Oh yes....I am a fan of all those - they were part of some good movies in the early 90s .....Nedumudi Venu is another fine actor. Agreed about the regional actors thing...I have seen very few to say anything about them.

[vincent]

Let me add my 2 cents to this.

First off, Naseeruddin Shah. Personally, Naseer is the greatest Indian actor that I have seen, by
any measure. The sheer authenticity he brings to the screen is something unparalleled in
Indian cinema. Someone whose resume includes Paar, Mandi, Umrao Jaan, Masoom, Junoon, Mirch Masala,
Albert Pinto, Bazaar, Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron, Sparsh (and I am still in the early-mid 80's) has to be a very
special actor. The reason I picked these films (and one can add tons more to them) was because the
each role demanded something distinctly different and in each case, Naseeruddin became the role. I
remember reading somewhere that Naseeruddin could play the role of a chair better than a chair
itself. He embodies everything that an actor should aspire to be.

On the commercial front, I would put Saif well ahead of both Aamir and Shahrukh. This guy is genuinely
good (with a superb comedic timing, to boot), and will only get better with meatier roles. To his credit,
Saif has created a niche for himself without the shallow nautanki that passes as acting in most films. Langda
Tyagi simply owned Omkara. Can anyone remotely imagine Shahrukh even attempting that role with his
range of emotions (all the way from A to B) ? Shahrukh is just not trained well enough as an actor.

In my view, Aamir has acquitted himself quite nicely. I thought Earth was a gritty and challenging part, and
he did quite well. On the lighter front, he was very smooth and authentic in Dil Chahta Hai.

Irfan/Konkona have the potential to be the Naseer/Shabana of this generation. They feed off each other
so very well - Metro should've had more of them. Eagerly waiting to see more of them.

I am not a Bollywood expert. I agree that Naseeruddin is a great actor. I have enjoyed may of his movies. But while talking about great Bollywood actors, I wonder why, in this entire thread (not quite, since I have not read all of it), there is not mention of Sanjeev Kumar.

[keep-it-cool]

Agree with Vincent. Sanjeev Kumar ranks right up there.

[sudzz]

Would be a interesting discussion to have about your personal set of top 10 Indian actors...

[colonel]

My top 10 in no particular order:

1. Om Puri
2. Naseeruddin Shah
3. Balraj Sahni
4. Sanjeev Kumar
5. Amjad Khan
6. Shoumitra Chatterjee
7. Dhritiman Chatterjee
8. Mithun
9. Shashi Kapoor
10. Amitabh

[TheWall]

achu:

why do you hate amir so much ? 

He loves Shahrukh, perhaps? 

are they mutually exclusive as far as likeability?

Comeon yaar, I meant if you like Shah Rukh, you are perhaps incapable of appreciating Amir 

No one comes close to Rajani annan, my hero.

Seriously speaking, Naseeruddin Shah is the one of those rare exceptions in Hindi cinema who can be considered a good actor today. But what I personally feel is that Hindi cinema lacks good directors and more importantly, an audience that can appreciate real quality versus the trash that is dished out daily.

Very very true. He's awesome. I was watching Umrao Jaan the other day...what a treat to watch Naseer.

Rajani..well, greatest India has ever produced 

[feverpitch]

1-100: Govinda...

just put whomever you please after that!

[sudzz]

My list is as below (sorry I dont have too much exposure to regional cinema)

1. Naseerudding Shah
2. Uttam Kumar/Govinda
3. Sanjeev Kumar
4. Sohrab Modi
5. Utpal Dutt
6. Amitabh Bachhan
7. Soumitra-The guy who was a main stay of Ray movies
8. Kamalahassan (when he has been handled well by K Balachander)
9. Dr Kashinath Ghanekar(Marathi Movies)
10. Vikram (Tamil), Aamir, Amjad Khan

[kban1]

sudzz:

In your list above,

I do not have an issue with anyone (I admit I have not seen all) except for Govinda.

Govinda at # 2 ?

Ahead of Sanjiv Kumar, Kamal Hassan, Soumitra Chatterjee, Utpal Dutt, Amitabh ?

May be I am missing something but Govina would not figure in my top 20 Indian actors. perhaps you would elaborate a bit ?

[sudzz]

sudzz:

In your list above,

I do not have an issue with anyone (I admit I have not seen all) except for Govinda.

Govinda at # 2 ?

Ahead of Sanjiv Kumar, Kamal Hassan, Soumitra Chatterjee, Utpal Dutt, Amitabh ?

May be I am missing something but Govina would not figure in my top 20 Indian actors. perhaps you would elaborate a bit ?

I dont think its as much about missing something as it is about personal tastes, I have seen Govinda evolve from Aag hi Aag his debut movie through Love 86 and the crap like that to Hatya and then again the entire Karisma and Raveena series etc etc.

I do admit its a poorly managed career but still there is a lot of raw talent there,(in fact I missed out naming Mithun da in my list as well)..

Iam sure at another point my list would be different because I have barely scratched the surface here..I know that there are lot of excellent Kannadiga actors which I havent named, similarly there are lot of Tamil, Marathi actors who are there of course there is a whole pantheon of Bengali actors.

Coming to the issue of him being above Sanjeev Kumar-agreed Sanjeev is far far superior actor but somehow I feel Govinda is slightly more versatile (open to debate) of course with Sanjeev Kumar I would put Paresh Rawal.

As I type this response Iam reminded of other stalwarts like Guru Dutt...thats why I felt it would be good idea to have a colation of India's best according to various people.

[sudzz]

Bump